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I see and ear many players argue about vampire having a limited gear choice, but I see alot of possibilities. In fact, I find there is so much goodness in the vampire counts items and bloodline powers, that I find it hard to choose.
Necrach was pretty easy to tool a proper casting vampire, but how do you go around and make a balanced vampire with a Carstein Count / Lord ?
Ring of Night, Walking Death, Aura Of Dark Majesty
Ring Of Night, Aura Of Dark Majesty, Wolf Form, Book Of Arkhan
How would you go about it ?
Thanks alot for the help so far, I am trying to get ready of a hall of heroes this weekend ^_^
This is the one I'd go with.Originally Posted by Wolf_Pack
I don't run Von Carstiens, I run Necrarchs, but I think if I were to run a Von Carstien list, that's the tooling I'd do. At least of the 2 you presented.
I think the combat resolution is vital. Undead need to autobreak. This will help towards that. And if you lose CR, at least you'll take one less wound.
The Book of Arkhan I think would be better equipped on a Necromancer. With the Vampires, it is my line of thinking that you should use lesser characters (Necros) to take the good magic items so your Vampire can beef up on bloodline powers, as I find the bloodline powers to be VERY nice.
I'd probably run something like:
Von Carstein Count: Walking Death, Aura of Dark Majesty, Sword of Striking or Battle, Shield
Necromancer: Book of Arkhan, Dispel Scroll
Necromancer: Staff of Damnation
Von Carstein Thrall: Battle Standard, Walking Death, Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield
That's just me though. You like the Ring of Night, so I'd just replace the Sword with the Ring and go with that.
Warhammer Fantasy: Vampire Counts | Wood Elves | Chaos
Carsteins cannot use shields or armour, other they loose tier casting abilities.
Good point with the necros using arcane items.
I really like the sword of striking on a vampire (will hit everything on a 2, except a chaos lord!) but I think you need a ring of night to make it through the day.
I thought that shields could still be used, just not armor...
Oops, my bad.
Warhammer Fantasy: Vampire Counts | Wood Elves | Chaos
I always give my general a ward save, even if its a blood dragon count on a horse with a 1+ armor save, they are just too important to lose. I normally use crown of the damned, becuase ld 9 seems pretty safe to me, and I have never had it happen at a critical time. Ring of the night is also good though.
I assume your count is on foot, I would probably kit him up so:
Aura of Dark Majesty, Ring of the Night, automatically. Then either walking death, summon wolves, or and arcane item, for balance and a tournament, probably walking death and the black periapt/spell familiar. Then give him a gw and hes good to go.
The reason that many people (including myself sometimes) have a problem with VC items, is though they are good, they aren't fantastic, and the magic weapons we get are really weak and mostly crappy (you can argue feel free). We have some of the most combat powerful characters in the game, yet the magic items don't back that up, I guess its a balancing factor, but it'd be nice to have some items that are usefull in combat (compare to O&G, Dark Elves, Ogres, Chaos ofcourse, etc.)
Last edited by Master Jabu; July 15th, 2006 at 23:15.
If you want my all around model, this is what I use...
Count Luther Von Carstein, lvl 2, crown of the damned, aura of dark majesty, and sword of striking. If you miss that stupidity save, it means two things: bad dice and lost attacks. A model gone stupid will defend itself, it just won't attack and will stumble forward if not in combat. The serious problem is that if he goes stupid, he can wander out of a unit.
But given that Luther will seldom fail his stupidity rule, he has a 4+ ward save at a low cost. His march range extends to 18" instead of 12, 6 more inches in every direction, which is huge for manuevering. We all know how important positioning is to warhammer in general, but some armies definitely rely on it (VC IMO, BoC, WE). Dark Majesty changes the game in your favor.
And like you said, the sword of striking means that his 4 attacks (5 if on a lord) hit on 2+ almost always.
But I don't think you can consider your general on his own. Who are his heroic compatriots and how will you equip them?
With Luther, I'd field a thrall mounted on a barded nightmare and equipped with a lance, hvy armor, walking death and the enchanted shield alongside some black knights. With four wights in front (with the war banner for another +1 to CR), there should be 8 attacks from the thrall's unit (assuming you took a hell knight). That should be two or three wounds at str 6 or 7, some with killing blow. So let's say one wound since the opponent got lucky on his damned armor save of 5+.
As far as combat res goes, that's one wound, a standard, the war banner, walking death, and a flank (because Danse Macabre works wonders). That totals five. Your opponent didn't do diddly-squat in return because you just spanked his lily white flanks. He lost his ranks, has a standard, and still outnumbers you, but since he had no return attacks, he has only two in CR, for a difference of 3 in your favor.
If you happened to outnumber him, he'd autobreak most of the time, with you rolling 3d6 in pursuit. If not, he'd most likely be testing at -3 to his Ld. Either way, this is when you say something like, "You just got owned, beyotch. Who's your Daddy?"
Slap in two necromancers of your choice, and you've got a good four heroes.
Going back to your first post, if you want some less characteristic builds, then maybe these...?
Why does nobody take the Von Carstein ring? Luther would be nigh indestrubile, especially when bolstered by Invocation of Nehek, and would prove an angel of death with a great weapon in his clammy, undead grip.
How about a lord with a great weapon, dark majesty, talon of death, and ring of the night?
Here's a weird one that involves both the count/lord debate and the armour of bone debacle. Why do you take a lord? I see two good reasons. First, you get another wound and another attack. I don't see the LD as that much of an advantage unless you're using the Crown of the Damned. The only unit that test on the general's Ld is ghouls.
As for the armour of bone, it's a lousy armor save but a free wound. The first time a character fails his armor save, he discounts that wound. So as long as the wound doesn't ignore armor saves, you're in great shape. It's like having five wounds instead of four.
A lord costs about 75 pts more than a count and you get one more attack and one more wound. The bone armour gives a lord a total of 5 wounds and can turn a count into a demi-lord as far as wounds are considered. Reinforce that with invocation of nehek and he's not going anywhere. Use the sword of might for attacks as strong as a treeman's or dragon's and you still have points left over for dark majesty.
Okay, it's late, and I've thought too much about this and am overdo for some sleep...good topic starter, Wolf_Pack.
Great post David. I was recently thinking of trying a Count on a Winged Nightmare with talon of death, warrior familiar, and wristbands of black gold. Not for a tournament ofcourse, but in a friendly, thats 5 autohit s5 attacks, before the combat even starts. Then you give him a gw, and he gets 4 s7, and the nightmare gets another 3 s6/5! I know it's risky, with shooting and all, but it would crush most units in combat, and could probably autobreak infantry on a front charge. It's almost like putting him in a chariot...that does 5 impact hits always...that causes terror...and flys. As for a balanced one, I like davids, and the crown of the damned is a personal fav of mine, but i just prefer higher str over higher to hit ratio. He will hit almost anything on 3s anyways, and wounding anything on 2s with a gw is a better bet for me, since it also reduces armor saves of say knights. My experience is from playing ogres, chaos, and lizardmen, which all have t5, so the boost helps, and with chaos, a mounted general has a 1+/2+ armor save, so reducing that is a must. I feel with a tournament, you need to be prepared for both the t3 elves, and the t4-5 ogres, chaos, and other combat beasts. Although that my not be in combat itself.
Again, great post with very insightful thoughts.
Thought about the carstein ring, but snatching all your gear allowance is a bit radical, and makes him more or less bound to hit combat to get some of those points back, and less flexible.
I am now debating in between the talon of death or the walking death (either way, very deadly, what a bad pun!). A a garanteed point of CR is nice, but also killing a model or 2 to thin the unit, and knock off a rank for later CR to boot.
Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay
Can't take a shield.