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Hello. I have a few second thoughts on me playing Chaos, before I open up what I have and buy what I need for Chaos I want to make sure there are no other factions I dont want to play. I got the rule book and read around in the fantasy fluff it had and a few other factions stood out. One being VC.
So how do you play with VC?
Can you make an army with many powerful Vampire figures and make it magic heavy? I wouldnt want to field a skeleton horde. Id want to field some big units of Grave Guards with Black Knights and minimum amount of skellies and let magic/guard/knights win me the game. Something with a few very powerful Vampires (or some magic hero) With elite Grave guards defending them would be fun.
Are VC hard to play? Are they generally thought of as a hard army to work and play with?
Is VC magic good and strong?
If you have anything else you want to tell me about VC or any regrets of playing them that people had, please tell me.
actually an army full of vampires/knights/guards would really not work well... you need at least 2 necromancer, even in a 1000pts army... you need zombies, yes you need them ! in a 1000 pts army go for something like 2block of zombie, 2 block of skellies, 2 necro, like 8-10 wolves in separate squad, you also replace a a necro for a thrall and use some grave guards as hammer unit.(when my friend play his 1000pts army he prefer using a squad of 9knights with a thrall, 2block of zombies and 2 necromancer, it work pretty well.
the main tactic is to stuck your opponent in your zombie/skeleton and then summon some on his flank. Use the book of arkan, it is really usefull, always use it at the end of your magic phase, it will assure you a flank charge on the same turn you summoned zombies on the flank of your opponent.
So VC tactics are to try and get the enemy army in a stalemate with your men while you cast spells that spwan more and you envelop them in hordes of skeletons? It sounds fun, yet it sounds expensive. I already play an expensive army in another game . Yet VC is still an option all consider as I gather more info from this thread and others.
In another thread about army themes one didnt have any zombies in it.
Actually it is not that expensive, you can make 30 zombie with a zombie box(that's 10 more), people usually don't build all the fig, they make some zombies getting out of their tombs, or make them without their arms or head, my friends usually use long base and put 3 full zombie and put 2 zombies getting out of their tombs on the base, it make a total of 5zombies, he can't remove them from the base so he just put a dice to mark how much hp the rank still have.(i hope you understand)
On the Armyt Selector thread one army list is called...
Ive never been bested in personal combat in 1,000 years - en-grade mortal!
It says to take elite units like Grave Guard and Knights with heros. It also says if you really want to follow the theme dont take zombies, only skeletons.
So couldnt I make an army with many heros, a big grave guard unit, knights and the rest Skeletons?
I might do VC later as a second project after they re-do them.
If you want GG, then I say go for one big unit in a 2000 pt game. It's expensive, but you can't raise new ones, which is also why I don't put my general there. He could die simply to combat res.
You need skellies though for bogging down the enemy.
The problem with GG and BKs is their average WS. Against other elite troops, they'll get hit on 3's most of the time, making them that much more likely to die. Sure, killing blow is great, but you don't have a lot of chances at it.
Sure, you probably could get a working army with elites filling out most of the army, but you wouldn't be using the strengths of VC. As DavidVC04 pointed out, our elites aren't great fighters, which is why I like taking a Cursed Book along with my Black Knights whenever I field a character with them. Basically I'd rather take skellies than Grave Guard, as the skeletons work great and keeps on coming.
On the other hand, I have heard of Blood Dragons on Zombie Dragons with all Black Knights and Dire Wolves having great succes, but for an all-comers army I stick with the skellies and necromancy, with a few hitters like knights and the Black Coach (just because I like it so much ).
What about everything else I asked?
Are they hard to play with?
How do you play with VC? What tactics do you use? What are usally game winning pieces and tactics used with them?
How expensive is a VC army? (In USD if possible.)
I want to know more about VC. Seeing it is possible to make a non disastourous VC army my way I want to know about other things that may convince me to play VC. If its cheap and the tactics/style of play appeal to me then they may be something I could switch too.
Yet its bad to start VC now because in a year the army I make now will need to be changed and their will be new better and cheaper models all want? If so, I may do VC in a year or two after the update and once my hordes have been made and played.
never report an army building with this excuses... they wil always remake the armies, and people will always have to make new army list because of those changes... Now to answer your questions.
1. I already explained you how to play with a casual VC army, march, summon, flank with summons using Book of Arkan or the spell that let you move 1D6(i think it has dance in the name, don't remmeber lol), use lot of skeletons/zombies, some wolves/bats to take down warmachines, a squad of Grave guard or 2 will always work as hammer unit(outnumbering the opponent is cool, but you need to kill them with something), or you can use knights, they are better and don't cost a lot of points.
2. Just explained the main tactic.
3. as number 2.
4. Ok... for the price, if you use real figs it will cost you a lot... but you can use elites fighter from other armies, for exemple :
Bretonnians are often used as Grave Knights, just convert the head, cut some places on the shield so it look like an old shield, and tadam.
For the Wolves, buy a Goblin Rider box instead of metal wolves, they look the same and it will cost you less money if you want a lot of wolves.
for zombies and skeletons, buy boxes and try to convert them so you can make 30 per boxes instead of 20. To do that my friend used a Warmaster base(they are the size of 5 zombie base put side to side), those are perfect for rank of 5 zombies, on them put 2-3 full zombies(or almost full, lacking an arm is ok), and depending on the number of full zombies you got, put 2-3 zombies getting out of the ground, use the tombstone to make a cooler ''reanimation'' effect.
For the Heroes you will have to use the heroes GW sells, or some Reaper Mini heroes(they are pretty cool and doesn't cost mort tehn 10 $) .
I think a good 2000pts army would cost you around 200-300 $ if you convert well =)
Jacaran, there are quite a few special rules, but once you get those down they are not that hard to play. The most important factor is maneuvering and fear/outnumbering. And maneuvering is important for most armies, so that should be learned anyway. As magicaltux says, get flanks and rear charges, and you only have to win one round to make most enemies flee if you outnumber, which is why skeletons are so good! A large block of skeletons to the front and 5+ knights in the flank spells doom for your opponent.
As for characters, you can make some of the hardest in the game, specialized for character killing, rank and file slaughter or magical mayhem.
And as for starting now, if you like the core models I'd say it's ok to get a few boxes and start assembling skellies and zombies. They will pretty much always be needed in a wellrounded Vampire army, as I see it.
I also agree with the estimate of 200-300 USD for 2000 points army, but thats obviously very dependant on your army composition. If you get lots of elites I think the cost will rise, but haven't done the math.