Welcome to Librarium Online!
I am new to Vamps but I have managed to snag half a dozen battles under my belt. I have played Orcs and Empire thus far... Was wondering if you could help me see why I keep getting my teeth kicked in.
My Orc player tends to have the following type of army.
3x 30 man Gobbo Squad (with 2 fanatics each)
2x 10 man Squib squad that move up the flanks.
1x Squib Pack about 10 squibs.
2x Gobbo Launcher
1x Bolt Thrower
1 Scroll Caddy (and manages a million dispell dice despite the lack of wizards)
1x Black Orc Squad 20-30 strong
Sometimes he'll run the same army but with a rediculous amount of magic and he'll lose the black orc squad to do it.
And I keep getting my but worked. The Squibs are tough to charge because they need no line of sight to charge nor do they need to delcare a charge. Sure they're a bit unreliable for movement, but it hasn't been a problem for him in the slightest. I've had these guys pile into a flank of my BK squad three times now. Holding me up in combat. The fanatics are a pain. I am afraid to charge him because of them.
The best I did in a match against him was with this army
Count, Blood Dragon, Heart Peicring, Red Fury, Strength of Steel, Flayed Haurbek, and Mounted on a winged Nightmare to go hunting.
1x Necro, scroll caddy
4x 10 man Ghoul Squads with a Ghast
4x 5 Man Dire Wolf Squad with no doom wolf
3x 5 Man Black Knight Squads, command, but no magical banner or champion.
1x 40 man strong zombie unit, full command.
Now whenI drew this army against him, he DID play his magic army last time. So I was out magiked. He made short work of the banshee, not even one scream. The dire wolves flanked hard to the right, and the lord followed them. 1 ghoul squad and the fell bats went up the left flank all by themselves and the rest of the army was in the middle and right hand side of the board. I usually place ghouls on either side of the zombies. The other two ghouls were moving up in trees on the right hand side.
Basically, I advanced. Slowly in the middle, fast on the side. Direwolves became the quick focus of magic. They were totalled by the start of turn three (except for a single dog which managed to flank TWO warmachines and by my awesome rolling caused them to autobreak off the board. The combined charge of dogs and knights did allow for the break and subsequent overrun of a gobbo squad.
The magics were also aimed at my ghouls. Every squad except for one was broken at least once. Two fled from the table, one was destroyed by the squib pack (which a night and zombie squad made quick work of in the next turn)... And so it went. Each turn I would lose one or two of my units to magiks and CC. In the End, I had one ghould squad holding a Quarter and he had a quarter. His squibs took one of of the banners, but I destroyed the squib squad. The leader did well, but fell to magics in the end of turn 5. Minor crumble, massacere for the Orcs.
I will attempt to post a PROPER battle report next game. With pictures and everything. But for now, any advice against his setup would be GREATELY appreciated.
Michael Andrew Boyko
Michael Andrew Boyko
It doesnt sound like you using your biggest strength "Fear", I use lots of skelies/zombies. of course i use Necrarch.necromancer.
You may want to use some necromancers to keep summoning those zombies, orcs have one glaring weakness against us, bad leadership. i literally make my friends orcs run off the board. Terror cuasing units works too. read the "dead is good" article in the back of your codex.
I would use a large core of zombies with your BD in the front ranks, when your lines hit theres raise up zombies in the flanks to negate there rank bonus, if you win combat and out number they have to run. goblins are horrble at holding the lines, have any other questions i can gointo further analysis with you. firstname.lastname@example.org
â€œFixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.â€?
â€œIn case of doubt, attack.â€?
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.â€?
General George Patton-
First get Zombies or skeletons. AT LEAST 20 man strong, but zombies may be the way to go with 30-men units. Once you have at least 3 maybe four, you could even get another necromancer in the army, but then have at least four infantry units, as the characters need them. so with a count, 2-3 lvl 2 necromancers and 3-4x30 zombies + some flanking forces (remember fellbats) you should be set. if any points are left and you have got the above, you might want to try the black coach... Many dislike it, but if it hits combat with a goblin squad, they are going bye bye, and you will have 10 wounds or the like. Just watch out for S7+ hits.
-lurking in the shadows of LO.
Officially diagnosed by TekoreMelkhior, Necrarch Lord
Ok... Normally I got for lots of small fast squads to pester the opponent until my slower ghouls and squad or two of zombies can get into position.
How would you rate this list?
So, just move up the middle, slow and steady, charge when possible but probably absorb flank charges, constant summoning to bolster lost troops with fast cavalry and fell bats to get in behind or hit flanks to help zombie charges?
Michael Andrew Boyko
Last edited by MichaelBoyko; June 11th, 2007 at 23:09.
Well you seem to have gone all out on magic with that list, I would give one of your necromancer the rod of flaming death, if any units take a single casualty they have to take a panic test, with low leadershiop gobbos this is a killer, also drop a stone for the book of arkan, extra movement is always good, and maybe switch a stone or two for a dispell scroll, it's good to know you can cancel a spell at an important time if you need to.
I would keep the banshee, if he likes to use fanatics, use the banshee to lure them out, they won't hurt the banshee at all since she is etherial, you can also use your ghouls for this, keep them next to a forrest, and when his gobbo unit passes by, move your ghouls into range, but still in the forest, this way they hit difficult terrain and die. Also try to keep these units out os sight until you need them, so he can't target them with magic.
Also I would go more for skellies with light armour rather than zombies, they cost a lot more, but they stick around a lot longer with a 4+ save in combat, maybe have a unit of zombies around just for a speedbumb, or use them to raise and charge the flanks. Also your units of bats are better at 3 or 4 large, 5 is to big, if you reduce them to 3, you can have 3 units of 3, or just use the points saved on something else.
vampire counts especaily at low points size games are very dependant on magic. i suggest taking 3 necromancers at 1-1.5k . as for the fanatics there is a simple solution. cast invocation of nehek around 8" away from his main battle line.(infront or behind) this will trigger the fantics and you can avoid them or simply fry them. Against goblins i never leave home without a rod of flmaing death abecasue with there low ld they are virtually bound to flee. THE_ZAPPER over and out
Ok Cool - check the link again... (http://www.ibleedink.com/mike/2000pt...nitsbdarmy.htm) as I have updated it...
I replaced a power stone for a dispell scroll, and took the book of Arkhan, but I opted out of the Flaming Rod of Death... Statistically, when one considers a single dispell die used, 2 hits are rolled, and one wound is scored and they take a panic test using only their own leadership... your chances of making that gobbo squad flee are Less than 15% per wound and that's assuming optimal conditions of the gobbo not being in range of his leader, rolling at least average to wound and the individual uses only 1 dispell dice to try and stop it (50% chance of success)... So I opted out from it.
I tossed out two Zombie squads for 1 skelly 30 man strong... I like it. And I made both fell bat squads only 3 bases, so I could afford a banshee!
Let me know what you all think now.
Michael Andrew Boyko
Really Zapper? You find it works more often than not?
But I have to thank you for the suggestion of using invokation of nehek BEHIND his gobbo squad... That makes a lot of sense when dealing with those fanatics. And makes it really dangerous for him... Well, can't he choose which direction to spit out his fanatics?
Michael Andrew Boyko
Put lists in the army list section for people to critique.
Rather then specifics of your army VS his I'll list some O&G vs VC points. I own both and have played against both and they really function very differentaly on the table.
One point I'm going to make is that both armies have a central core rule which you and your opponent can't forget. For VC this is fear. Make sure he takes every fear check, as I have certanly lost games with my O&G from rolling an 11 on a fear check. The other rule to make sure you remember is Animosity. This is another rule that has lost me games as an O&G player. Make sure that every unit takes its animosity test every round, which is every unit in the list you gave at the begining except for the black orks and the warmachines.
As far as the fanatics go, I find them far to easy to deal with as a VC player. I usualy play Strigoi (which is a blood line I would recomend over Blood dragon) and the summon ghoul power can often pull all the fanatics out and then go on to attack the warmachines. Or you can summon a pack of zombies right in the middle of his lines, or right in front of the warmachines, or you can just toss a 50 point unit of dire wolves with their 18 inch move up the table on turn 1 and force them all out on his side of the table. They really shouldn't bother you too much.
As far as the squigs go, their main weakness is shooting, which is something VC can't take advantage of. A gaze of Nagash can really ruin their day, but that is conditional to getting that spell, and then casting it. Ghouls can really do a job on them, but they require the charge not to get eaten themselves. This isn't one I'm sure I can help with, as I myself haven't seen squigs on the field.
Fair enough, I will place the army list in the proper section for critique... Thanks for the help. I am a WH40k Chaos player, and so I am a bit new to WHF and VC isn't as close to my old playstyle as I would have hoped, so I am getting my butt kicked left right and centre. Then again, the people I have played have all received their new codex, and I have not - this might also be making a difference. Some of my troop choices don't seem to pack the same *punch* that there's do.
Michael Andrew Boyko