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  1. #1
    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    Couple Questions

    (1) Has GW mentioned anything lately about when they will release a new VC book as I think we are due one about now with some nifty new rules to combat the armies who have already received an "edge" in the game.

    (2) What "sensible" advice do people have when facing magic armies that are actually more powerful than yours by far magic wise? Ex. take a 2nd gen Slann of noob death, they along with 1-2 skink priests shut down your magic phase completely and VC without magic = game over!


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Darkeagle8k's Avatar
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    (1) Has GW mentioned anything lately about when they will release a new VC book as I think we are due one about now with some nifty new rules to combat the armies who have already received an "edge" in the game.

    They rarely release a lot of warning for new rules, and i havnt heard anything about a new army book being released. They should redo the models and the rules soon though, as we are in line for it.


    (2) What "sensible" advice do people have when facing magic armies that are actually more powerful than yours by far magic wise? Ex. take a 2nd gen Slann of noob death, they along with 1-2 skink priests shut down your magic phase completely and VC without magic = game over!
    Hmm. Thats a good 'un. Well i have actually beat a lizardman nearly spot on to what you described. I just tried to get a few summonings off here and there and draw out his dispel dice for the bound items. VC don't really need magic IMO. It can have a devastating effect, but you dont really need it to win games. Fear, Outnumbering, And the sheer power of vampires and wights pulls most games off for me. See if you can too. :ninja:

    -DE
    "The anatomy of your brain is more than your mind can handle. What?"

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  4. #3
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    You usually start to hear stuff around 6 months before the release. VC is supposed to be next year, so keep your ear to the ground and see what happens.

    Against other magic heavy armies, your best bet is trying to engage the enemy as fast as possible. VC have the beautiful advantage that, unlike TK, their speed is not based on their ability to cast spells (though it helps!). Fear is the one big advantage you need to use against Lizards, so big units and judicious use of power dice to bulk out your units (stuff the other spells) as much as possible. The main advantage of cold-blooded can be dealt with if you can win and outnumber them. It will be a hard match, but you just have to play to VC's other advantages outside of the magic phase.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    Fear is pointless against Lizardmen.......

    (1) Cold Blooded basically means they will pretty much NEVER fail a LD test, so they will never run away and even if they do, they will rally the next time with ease.

    (2) Win a combat against Lizardmen...........riiiight. A saurus warrior unit with 10 attacks, with decent strength and toughness against your skeletons and zombies......hardly going to win the combat! You aint gonna summon more units coz your magic is shut down completely and your elite units which cud kill lizardmen (not many of them) are blown away by spells.

    Doesnt leave many options open!

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    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    If you go into a game think you will lose, you're going to lose. You've got to think positively.

    Quote Originally Posted by farmergiles65 View Post
    Fear is pointless against Lizardmen.......

    (1) Cold Blooded basically means they will pretty much NEVER fail a LD test, so they will never run away and even if they do, they will rally the next time with ease.
    An autobreak makes life difficult for them. Once you've got them on the back foot you can better control the battlefield. If you're really lucky you might crossfire them.


    Quote Originally Posted by farmergiles65 View Post
    (2) Win a combat against Lizardmen...........riiiight. A saurus warrior unit with 10 attacks, with decent strength and toughness against your skeletons and zombies......hardly going to win the combat! You aint gonna summon more units coz your magic is shut down completely and your elite units which cud kill lizardmen (not many of them) are blown away by spells.
    They will eventually get unlucky when it comes to dispelling. While you can't rely on magic, it doesn't preclude its use. If they can cause you trouble, you can do the same to them. As long as you can dispel the important, high damage spells you will get across the table. You can't stop everything, so don't bother trying to (2nd generations in 2k leaves the lizzie army very small) - let the D6 hits spells go off against high armour units, for example.

    Playing against lizzies means picking where to strike carefully. More than likely you'll be trying to hit hard in one small part of their line since engaging them across their full front will mean you lose.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

  7. #6
    I have a cunning plan no1cafc's Avatar
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    If your playing against a 2nd gen slaan you have to try and focus as much of your army at it as possible. If you can kill it and the unit its most likely going to be in, the game will be yours cos youll rack up roughly 1200+ vp. You just got to take the magic thrown at you and pick what spells you dispel wisely.
    BEN DIESEL FTW!!!

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    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    A lizardman army with a 2nd gen slann is a great matchup for VC.

    You will have lots of magic which means you will also have a lot of magic defense.

    Your troops are to provide a +5 CR, your characters are to provide the extra wounds. The lizardmen aren't going to have any (or maybe 1) combat character and almost no actual army.

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    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    The +5 combat res is assuming your army isn't obliterated by magic by the time you reach the other side, remember the slow speed of Lizardmen! Lizardmen tend to cause a lot of wounds rather than rely on CR and Saurus can do that! Failing that, Skink blowpipes will rip your units apart - why undead aren't immune to poison is silly!!

    The victory points for a Slann is nice, but it will NEVER die. Its got 6 wounds, toughness 5 or 6, 4+ ward save (2+ for shooting) and its usually surrounded by a ton of Temple Guard - thats pretty impenetrable by most of the Undead army! The only half reliable stuff in the army like Banshees etc won't do much either as the Slann will simply target them with magic spells and kill them in one hit.

    Magic Defense - lets assume a count with 2 necromancers all at level 2 - thats only a bit of magic offense and only 5 dispel dice - Slanns at 2nd gen get a free power dice with every spell so they pretty much will get past your defense - particularly with me whos cursed with dice rolls!

  10. #9
    Slaaneshi Battle Barge CO
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    If he's got a 2nd Gen Slann and all that Temple Guard, you should be able to outnumber him and break up his army piecemeal, especially since they'll probably be sitting somewhere behind the rest of his troops, unengaged and not doing anything besides serving as meat-shields for the God-Frog.

    Any time you attack, make sure that you gang up on them, preferably from multiple directions.

    You'll want some dispel scrolls for the first couple of turns, until you can even the magic phase out a little bit by killing his skink priests.
    My suggestion would be to use flyers or wolves to take out any skink priests that you can get to. This will remove a bit the sting from the magic phase.

    Use multiple units to get on those blowgun skinks as quick as you can. They're not that tough, you should be able to run them off pretty easily, provided you don't get needled to true death on the way in.

    Use elite units with heroes, backed by flanking summoned zombies to take out his harder units. Like I said, if he's running the 2nd Gen Frog-God, he probably won't have too many of these.

    If he's using any high toughness models, hit him with ghouls to start and then maybe something a little heavier once you've stripped a wound or two off.

    Save the Slann and his pals for last. Surround the unit and grind it down into nothing. If you've got multiple units and some heroes left, you'll eventually get him.

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    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    The +5 combat res is assuming your army isn't obliterated by magic by the time you reach the other side, remember the slow speed of Lizardmen! Lizardmen tend to cause a lot of wounds rather than rely on CR and Saurus can do that! Failing that, Skink blowpipes will rip your units apart - why undead aren't immune to poison is silly!!
    We had this same discussion in the wood elf forum.

    The victory points for a Slann is nice, but it will NEVER die. Its got 6 wounds, toughness 5 or 6, 4+ ward save (2+ for shooting) and its usually surrounded by a ton of Temple Guard - thats pretty impenetrable by most of the Undead army! The only half reliable stuff in the army like Banshees etc won't do much either as the Slann will simply target them with magic spells and kill them in one hit.
    The best way to kill anything in warhammer is to break it in combat and then run it down. It doesn't matter how many wounds it has or what its ward saves are.

    Magic Defense - lets assume a count with 2 necromancers all at level 2 - thats only a bit of magic offense and only 5 dispel dice - Slanns at 2nd gen get a free power dice with every spell so they pretty much will get past your defense - particularly with me whos cursed with dice rolls!
    I don't think you're putting enough into magic defense. In Warhammer you need to spend points on magic defense or you will be destroyed by magic heavy armies. For that reason taking a little bit of magic offense won't do anything since people must defend against 10-15 power dice armies.

    In my current army I have 4 dispel dice and 4 dispel scrolls. Its true that I cannot stop everything but the small magic missiles aren't too bad. You have to keep in mind that he'll be spending over 800 points on his magic offense, that should count for something. Imagine spending 800 points on missile troops. You're going to hope that they'll hit something.

    His army will be incredibly small, small enough that flank charges should be easy enough to achieve. A flank charge with a unit in front will mean he will need insane courage to stick around which is unlikely. If he does stick around you'll just get him next turn.

    You're not cursed, it just sounds like you rely on rolling high at the wrong times. Huge casting numbers are what dispel scrolls are for. Save your dice for when he rolls low but still gets his spell off.

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