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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    108 (x4)

    votewar 40k, IG vs. Tau

    I will let the battle run until 8 pm (GMT+1) on saturday, so that the voters will have time to vote and discuss all of the battles. Here is the armies:

    The Vagrant Response: 43rd Occupational Defense Force (IG)

    [1500] Imperial Guard w/ WitchHunter Allies
    The Vagrant Response: 43rd Occupational Defense Force

    HQ
    Command Platoon
    Command Squad
    Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, Iron Discipline
    Standard Bearer, Mortar
    91

    Fire Support Squad
    3 Heavy Bolters
    80

    Inquisitorial Lord
    Hammerhand, Storm Bolter
    2 Acolyte w/ 2 Bolt Pistols each, Familiar
    86

    Elites
    5 Hardened Veterans
    3 Melta-Guns
    75

    5 Ratling Snipers
    55

    Callidus Assassin
    120

    Troops
    Infantry Platoon
    Command Squad
    Junior Officer w/ Iron Discipline
    Heavy Bolter
    55

    Infantry Squad
    Plasma Gun, Lascannon
    95

    Infantry Squad
    Plasma Gun, Lascannon
    95

    Infantry Squad
    Plasma Gun, Lascannon
    95

    Infantry Platoon
    Command Squad
    Junior Officer w/ Iron Discipline
    Heavy Bolter
    55

    Infantry Squad
    Plasma Gun, Lascannon
    95

    Infantry Squad
    Plasma Gun, Lascannon
    95

    Fast Attack
    Hellhound
    Heavy Stubber
    127

    Heavy Support
    Leman Russ Battle Tank
    3 Heavy Bolters
    155

    Basilisk
    Indirect Fire
    125

    Total Points: 1499

    Doctrines:
    Veterans
    Drop Troops
    Iron Discipline,
    Ratling Snipers,
    Sharpshooters

    -------------------------------------

    The Vior'la Anti-Marine Strike Cadre

    HQ
    [1] Shas'O
    +Plasma Rifle
    +Fusion Blaster
    +Multitracker
    =108 points

    Troops
    [11] Fire Warriors
    +Pulse Rifles
    [1] Shas'ui
    +Pulse Rifle
    [1] Devilfish
    +Decoy Launchers
    =215 points

    [11] Fire Warriors
    +Pulse Rifles
    [1] Shas'ui
    +Pulse Rifle
    [1] Devilfish
    +Decoy Launchers
    =215 points

    Elites
    [2] Crisis Suits
    +Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles
    +Shield Generators
    =148 points

    [2] Crisis Suits
    +Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles
    +Shield Generators
    =148 points

    [6] Stealth Suits
    +Burst Cannons
    =180 points

    Heavy Support
    [1] Hammerhead
    +Railgun
    +Burst Cannons
    +Decoy Launchers
    +Multitracker
    +Target Lock
    =170 points

    [1] Hammerhead
    +Railgun
    +Burst Cannons
    +Decoy Launchers
    +Multitracker
    +Target Lock
    =170 points

    [1] Hammerhead
    +Ion Cannon
    +Burst Cannons
    +Decoy Launchers
    +Multitracker
    =145 points

    Total: 1499 points

    Ok, remember the basic rules and get voting!

    Last edited by Sareld; December 1st, 2005 at 22:54.

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  3. #2
    Xuy
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    ooo a tough one both well designed shooty armies but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to go with IG. All those heavy weapons will make short work of the crisis suits and hammerheads.

    Vote: IG
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  4. #3
    Son of LO Silver Wings's Avatar
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    I vote IG

    Heavy Bolters, a Helllhound and a callidus are all great anti-Tau. The Ion head is pretty pointless with not enough Railheads to really kill infantry and deal with the Russ.

    Plus Basalisks are a god send against Crisis suits.

    5 Lascannon should down the Devilfish/Hammerheads easily enough.
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  5. #4
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    I'd like to point out that this Tau list is (obviously) a Mech Tau list and that certain things won't help the IG very much ... namely:

    1) Heavy Bolters: If the Tau player is smart, and knows Mech Tau well, it will be very rare that the Firewarriors leave their Devilfish. The main role of the Firewarriors is not to destroy, but to capture objectives and stay alive as scoring units. Once in awhile, when the IG brings a squad or something else (say, an Assassin) too close to a Crisis Suit or Stealth Squad, they can do a Fish of Fury or Double Fish of Fury and most probably wipe out at least one or two infantry squads.

    2) Hellhound: Same basic principles as the Heavy Bolters; while it's a reasonably high strength template, against the Firewarriors it will be lacking as it will be difficult to penetrate armour, and the Hellhounds main target would be the Firewarriors. So, it'll be forced to hunt for Crisis Suits and Stealth Suits, which should be protected by Railgun fire (and a Fusion gun).

    3) Callidus Assassin: It's threatening mainly the Crisis Suits and the Stealth Suits, but both of these types of units are much faster than the Assassin. If he tried to assault them, they would simply jump back (all the while shooting) and make him a waste.

    4) Ratling Snipers: They could threaten the vehicles (a little) but I don't see them being able to be anything but an annoyance; if the Tau player can utilise cover effeciently, they will rarely, if ever, have LOS to a Crisis Suit or be within spotting distance of the Stealths.

    5) Veterans: These guys could pose a close-range threat to the Tau player's transports, but again, all the Tau player has to do is hide those 'fishies behind some cover and sit back.

    6) Lascannons: This is one of the two biggest threats in this list against the Tau player's list. Five lascannons, even at BS3, are dangerous for an all-vehicle list; however, since there are only five, and they aren't the most accurate, not to mention the Skimmers Moving Fast rule and Decoy Launchers, they will still have a tough time taking down five Tau vehicles. The Tau player should consider these infantry squads a priority target, however, as they almost pose the most amount of danger (not to mention make up the most scoring units, and the core of the IG army).

    7) Leman Russ: A dangerous tank, indeed, and one of the best options for the IG player to take for its versatility. However, it is worse off than a Lascannon for anti-vehicle, and all of the disadvantages that the Lascannons have against the Tau army will apply here. Also, two BS4 Railguns sighted on it will make it toast relatively easily, IMO.

    Basalisk: This badboy is the other biggest threat, and it is THE biggest threat. With the Earthshaker's indirect fire (and large stats), it can potentially cream all of the Suits in the list. The Tau player should probably deep strike either the HQ or one of the two Crisis Suit squads (I, personally, would DS a squad) as close to the rear of the Basalisk as possible and try to use rapid-firing Plasma (or a Fusion, as well, in the case of the Shas'O) to take it out. Very much a danger to the Tau list, and one of the best picks for the Imperial Guard army.

    9) Command Squad: Not much of a threat to the Tau list, and there's no Vox ... no Vox?! The whole point of an IG Command Squad (in the Command Platoon) is to spread the Leadership; the Honorifica Imperialis is wasted, IMO, on the Junior Officer without a Vox system in the list.

    The Tau list's biggest weaknesses are:

    1) Numbers: The severe lack of numbers, especially as compared to the IG army, will play a role in the battle, but not nearly as big a one as you might imagine. They don't have a lot of firepower, but that's not the point of the Firewarriors; they are there to be scoring units, to take objectives, and to occasionally take out an enemy or two. If played correctly, they will accomplish this tactic very well, and let the rest of the units pick off the enemies.

    2) Hammerheads: The Ionhead isn't a horrendous choice, but it's not the best to use against IG; very good against Space Marines and other MEQ armies, however. Another Railhead would greatly benefit the Tau list in this case, but the Ionhead isn't useless; it can still get 3 long-ranged shots off a turn, which can help against the Infantry.

    I like both lists, but I honestly think the Tau one is a little better in this case; in the hands of a good Mech Tau player, it will be used to deadly effect. Of course, in the hands of a bad Mech Tau player, it'll get dominated. It's not always in the list, but in the hands of the player, as well.

    My vote goes to Tau.

  6. #5
    Member Commissar zero's Avatar
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    I vote for IG

    Place my vote with them, because there are really no tau troops, (Nemesis stated the stay in the trans port thing) that the troop squads with lascannons could fire at tau tanks. Ig would just use the troops to soak up hits. Plus IG have their tanks which could kill the Devils and Hammerheads.
    Last edited by Commissar zero; December 1st, 2005 at 23:20.
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot Arakiaz's Avatar
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    I vote Tau

    For basicly the same reasons as Lost Nemesis points out
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  8. #7
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    -I VOTE IMPERIAL GUARD

    -they have enough heavy weapons to kill the crisis suits and hammerheads. also if the tau stay in transports, the IG can just blow up the transports, with all their heavy weapons, and slaughter the tau inside with the medium weapons.
    Procrastination- hard work often pays off over time, but laziness always pays off now.
    Indifference- it takes 43 muscles to frown, and 17 to smile, but none to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.

    -Votewar 40K III= 1st place
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  9. #8
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    Vote annuled, see lower post
    The Tau simply don't have the numbers, and their transports will be pretty useless, since they don't hurt very much, and they don't need to protect the FWarriors from cc, thus they are wasted
    Last edited by TheWamp; December 2nd, 2005 at 04:11.
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  10. #9
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    I'd like to direct everyone to my original post in this thread ... as I'm sure it's not against the rules to continue to debate about tactics, etc.

    Most of the voters so far, IMO, don't know how Mech Tau works, so I'll give a sort of basic rundown.

    T0nkaTruckDriver did a marvelous job of explaining it a few months ago; those Firewarriors are not there to cause damage, and the game isn't all about what the unit kills. The Firewarriors aren't accomplishing nothing; many scenarios deal with scoring units, etc. The Firewarriors are scoring units, and are well protected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar zeo
    Place my vote with them, because there are really no tau troops, (Nemesis stated the stay in the trans port thing) that the troop squads with lascannons could fire at tau tanks. Ig would just use the troops to soak up hits. Plus IG have their tanks which could kill the Devils and Hammerheads.
    Again, the Tau troops are not there to cause damage unless a lot of concentrated fire is needed; they can take objectives, and they count as scoring units. Now, the total number of Lascannons is what ... 5? At BS3, they won't be hitting all the time. Along with Decoy Launchers, needing a 4+ to get on the armour penetration tables (for glancing or penetrating hits), and the Skimmers Moving Fast rule, I don't think 5 Lascannons will cut it against 5 vehicles. All the while, those squads will be getting picked off one by one by Hammerheads, Stealth Suits, and Crisis Suits. Not to mention, the two IG tanks are even worse off than the Lascannon squads at getting rid of the Tau vehicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiaxrulesall
    -they have enough heavy weapons to kill the crisis suits and hammerheads. also if the tau stay in transports, the IG can just blow up the transports, with all their heavy weapons, and slaughter the tau inside with the medium weapons.
    The IG can't blow up the transports if the transports are not within LOS to anti-tank weaponry ... which they should be, if the Tau player knows how to play with this list. The IG army has a respectable amount of heavy weapons, yes; however, the Heavy Bolters are all but useless against an army like this, and again the Lascannons will (generally) be relatively inaccurate, and have difficulty taking out the Hammerheads (which are a far bigger threat than the Devilfished Firewarriors). Also, the Crisis Suits, in an ideal situation, will be utilising the JSJ tactic to stay away from the IG's heavy weapons (all but the Bassie); now, I'm not saying it will always be the case, but they can generally accomplish a fair level of safety by using this tactic, and they still have Shield Generators should they take a hit, so they always have a chance of staying alive. The Shas'O should never be the closest target to the IG lines unless he is needed to be, so he will be unable to be targetted due to his IC status.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWamp
    The Tau simply don't have the numbers, and their transports will be pretty useless, since they don't hurt very much, and they don't need to protect the FWarriors from cc, thus they are wasted
    I don't think I need to repeat myself over and over, but the transports will be far from wasted; they are faster than the Firewarriors' normal speed and can get them to where they need to go relatively safely; be it to the IG lines (or another area for them to disembark and shoot) or to an objective. The transports, like the Firewarriors, aren't there to "hurt much"... they are there to stay alive, and to keep their cargo alive.

    Well, that's my counterarguments for all your points. Good stuff, guys, let's keep it rolling!

  11. #10
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    It by no means against the rules to discuss tactics, we are all here to learn about them, arent we?

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