votewar 40k tournament one FINAL! Eldar vs. Chaos!

[Sareld]

Laddies and lasses, I give thee the votewar 40k FINAL!

Death Guard

Death Guard Lord
+Mark of Nurgle
+Terminator Armor
+Manreaper
+Daemonic Strength
+Nurgle’s Rot
135pts

6x Death Guard Terminator Retinue
+2x Reaper Autocannons
+3x Power Fists
+Chain Fist
++Champ (free)
++Plague Sword
++Daemonic Strength
329pts

7x Death Guard Marines
+2x Melta Guns
+Infiltrate
++Champ- (free)
++Power Fist
189pts

7x Death Guard Marines
+2x Melta Guns
+Infiltrate
++Champ- (free)
++Power Fist
++Teleport Homer
194pts

7x Death Guard Marines
+2x Melta Guns
+Infiltrate
++Champ- (free)
++Power Fist
++Teleport Homer
194pts

7x Death Guard Havocs
+4x Plasma Guns
+Infiltrate
++Champ- (free)
++Power Fist
229pts

7x Death Guard Havocs
+4x Plasma Guns
+Infiltrate
++Champ- (free)
++Power Fist
229pts

------------------------

The Tempest of Blades

62 Farseer w-close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, fortune
62 Farseer w-close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, fortune
70 Vyper w- 2 Shuriken Cannons
306 8 Striking Scorpions, exarch w- scorpion's claw, Wave serpent w- TL bright lances, spirit stones
306 8 Striking Scorpions, exarch w- scorpion's claw, Wave serpent w- TL bright lances, spirit stones
300 8 Howling Banshees, exarch w- executioner, Wave serpent w- TL bright lances, spirit stones
100 Warwalker w- 2 starcannons
100 Warwalker w- 2 starcannons
190 Falcon w- holo-field, starcannon, spirit stones

The winner of this battle will be the FIRST LO VOTEWAR CHAMPION EVER! Now thats a title everyone can be proud of, now get voting!

[TheWamp]

I vote for Eldar

If they deploy the falcon and maybe a waveserpent forward to hold the infiltrators back, they can retreat those 2 on the first turn, giving the entire army 3 solid turns to shoot at the advancing death guard

5 starcannons
15 shots
7.5 hits
5 wounds
5 kills

1 pulse laser
2 shots
1 hit
5/6 wounds
5/6 kills

3 twin-linked brightlances
3 shots
9/4 hits
15/8 wounds
15/8 kills

2 shurikannons
6 shots
3 hits
2 wounds
2/3 kills

So a total of 7.5ish kills per turn, for 3 turns. That means that the terminators and the havocs all die before they get a chance to do anything. More importantly, even though only 3 turns of shooting are gauranteed, the eldar can probably simply stay out of the range of the death guard and continue to fire on the DG. The skimmers in this army can deal quite a punishment, and if the warwalkers can find a clear line of retreat, they can move back 6"/turn, firing the whole way.

Overall, as long as the eldar DON"T just fly forward and engage the enemy in cc, they can win. The slowness of the Death Guard and the weaponry on the skimmers assures this.

And if they need to take out 1 or 2 last squads, deploying 3 aspect squads all at once should easily do the job, especially considering the scorpion's claws and the executioner.

[Ezekiel1990]

I also vote for Eldar.

The DG only have 1 unit built for hoard killing, and that's the Terminator squad. The DG list is great when it comes to killing SM, but that's basically it.

The Eldar list is incredibly effective and is extremely well balanced against all armies with good firepower and mobility, and doesn't conform to the usual stereotypical Eldar Cheese.

My vote goes to the Eldar

[Librarian Augustine]

I vote eldar

The death gaurd have been tooled up to kill marines and it won't cut it vs eldar. besides that the eldar can run circles around the death gaurd and have all the weapondry to do it. The havocs and terminators which are the most dangerous squads will be killed before they can reach the eldar. After that I think that the aspect warriors can take care of any remaining death gaurd

[[Black] Katalyst]

I vote Death Guard.

Eldar's only cc units are the Scorpians and Banshees.

The Scorpians are great in cc, but will hit on 4+ and wound on 5+. The DG will hit on 4+ and wound on 3+. Both the champion and exarch have powerfists, the exarch hits better though. I think what will win the combat for DG is their True Grit. Even if the Scorpians charge, every DG will have 2 attacks, 3 for the champ.

The banshees are another beastly unit in combat, but their effectiveness drops due to their wounding on 6's.

Vypers and War Walkers both have the same down fall, AV10 open top. These can be drowned out in ranged bolter fire or a DS of the terminators firing their reaper autocannons.

As for setting up, I do think infiltrate will severely comprimise eldar's speed.

As for what The Wamp states, that is all true. But his tactics rely on too many facotrs. Yes Eldar can get 3 rounds of shooting, only if they go first. Yes Eldar can kill 7 DG a turn, but thats only if they have LOS with EVERY SHOOTING UNIT. Yes they can take out the havocs and terminators, but thats if they are positioned in front of every marine killing gun Edar has and if the terminators aren't DSed.

[LictorInTheGrass]

Death Guard has my vote
They will make more use of cover than Eldar, higher toughness, etc.

Obviously I didn't type enough, because I got yelled at. Talking about wounding as Katalyst did, it will come down to the CC, which Death Guard holds the high ground in. Only problem is the absurd amount of vehicles Eldar has but that when the Melta's come into play, all glancing become penetrates. Trusting on the Warseers won't last with a deepstriking squad of Termies whip'em out. This plays into how DG can position better that Eldar and simply DG out numbers them.

[Lost Nemesis]

Lictor; make sure you read the rules. You need to put your vote in bold, and unfortunately you need more than just one line talking about your vote.

Well.. it's come to the final round. This is going to be a close one, I can feel it.

Death Guard

1) Lord + Retinue - Not quite as effective as they would have been vs. the Dark Angels, they can still make for a nice fire-soaker as well as a good damage-dealer. Can get a decent position and can survive vs. everything but the Starcannons.. they'll do their job reasonably well, but I wouldn't count on them to win the day.

2) Marines - They can take objectives quickly due to Infiltrate, and they can hold their ground very well due to high toughness and easy access to cover. Any vehicles that get close to them will get roasted by the Melta Guns; the most probable occurence of this, I believe, will be vs. the Scorpions, as when they unload, they won't have the speed to charge straight into CC; meaning they won't be able to stop the Death Guard's Melta weapons from shooting at the Wave Serpent. Overall, I think they'll be able to withstand a high amount of punishment; as Katalyst said, the Eldar CC units won't be ultra effective vs. the high toughness and good saves. Not to mention, most of the DG units should (would) be in cover, so they will strike first; while that's not a whole lot, it could potentially ruin the Eldar's day (at least a bit).

3) Havocs - I pity the squad trying to charge these guys, unless they are the Banshees (who are capable of unloading, and getting to combat).. if the Scorpions try to get it against them, they will most probably get roasted with all of the rapid firing plasma that these guys can unleash on them. Great objective holders and able to get out a very nice amount of close to medium ranged fire (up to 24"), they can cause some damage on everything; the War Walkers will probably fall relatively easy against them.

Overall, I don't see that the Eldar's CC capabilities will help them that much; the Bright Lances are incapable of being all that effective, as they are wasted when not against tanks, really (everyone has this problem vs. these Death Guard.. huh). The DG have enough units to space themselves out well enough to make sure that even if one of their units is caught in CC, and dies, the enemy won't be able to easily get into another squad. The infiltrating will seriously help them with objective-based missions (some of them, anyways). The War Walkers aren't much of a threat if they can position themselves well enough; heck, they can get within 24" pretty easily of a War Walker with Infiltrate and be able to take them out with massed plasma fire.

The DG's biggest weakness is against the Wave Serpents and Falcon; however, I'm sure it won't be too hard to stay away from these guys; i.e., get behind cover, close firing lanes, and use cover saves as often as they can. If a WS venture within a certain distance, unleash as much anti-tank as possible. Also, the Lord + Retinue could (maybe) take them out relatively easily; the Power Fists, even when hitting on 6's, should receive a decent enough amount of attacks to make taking at least one or two down not too bad of a problem. The Vyper Jetbike is a joke, though; if it even thinks about getting too close, it will get plasma'd to death; not to mention, it can't even really kill effectively (as TheWamp showed in his statistics).

Really, it probably won't be as one-sided as my explanation might seem; however, I think that if the Death Guard are used right, they can put up one heck of a fight and deal enough damage to the Eldar to take the win.

My vote goes to the Death Guard.

[TheWamp]

Originally Posted by Black Katalyst

I vote Death Guard.

Eldar's only cc units are the Scorpians and Banshees.

The Scorpians are great in cc, but will hit on 4+ and wound on 5+. The DG will hit on 4+ and wound on 3+. Both the champion and exarch have powerfists, the exarch hits better though. I think what will win the combat for DG is their True Grit. Even if the Scorpians charge, every DG will have 2 attacks, 3 for the champ.

The banshees are another beastly unit in combat, but their effectiveness drops due to their wounding on 6's.

Okay, 2 key points here: first, you're assuming that the eldar go for close combat. They could deploy the falcon and a wave serpent forward, then fall back and give the eldar 3 solid turns of shooting, which would take out all the havocs and terminators (with average luck).

After that the scorpions can charge, sure. Big thing you're forgetting though: sure the DG get 2 attacks a piece, but scorpions get 4 attacks per, and the exarch gets 5 (including mandiblaster). Also, eldar have higher initiative, meaning several DGs won't strike back, and they outnumber individual DG squads.

Vypers and War Walkers both have the same down fall, AV10 open top. These can be drowned out in ranged bolter fire or a DS of the terminators firing their reaper autocannons.

Given that they outrange the bolters (since the DG will be advancing, 12" range), they should be okay for a while.

As for setting up, I do think infiltrate will severely comprimise eldar's speed.

If eldar were to charge this would be a problem, but given that they aren't trying to just do a brainless charge, this isn't too much of a problem.

As for what The Wamp states, that is all true. But his tactics rely on too many facotrs. Yes Eldar can get 3 rounds of shooting, only if they go first. Yes Eldar can kill 7 DG a turn, but thats only if they have LOS with EVERY SHOOTING UNIT. Yes they can take out the havocs and terminators, but thats if they are positioned in front of every marine killing gun Edar has and if the terminators aren't DSed.

Going first is a factor, but LOS is not. First, they are skimmers: drawing LOS is rediculously easy: they can move 12", sit on top of cover, and still shoot. Second, for the warwalkers, all they have to do is get LOS at ONE of those squads
If the Termis deepstrike, they'd be sitting ducks for a turn during which they could easily be slaughtered.

3) Havocs - I pity the squad trying to charge these guys, unless they are the Banshees (who are capable of unloading, and getting to combat).. if the Scorpions try to get it against them, they will most probably get roasted with all of the rapid firing plasma that these guys can unleash on them. Great objective holders and able to get out a very nice amount of close to medium ranged fire (up to 24"), they can cause some damage on everything; the War Walkers will probably fall relatively easy against them.

2 Things: First, why can't the scorpions simply deply and charge (they can do this if the transport doesn't move till after they deploy). Thus, no plasma. Second, given that they're sitting back far enough the warwalkers will EASILY blast these guys.

1) Lord + Retinue - Not quite as effective as they would have been vs. the Dark Angels, they can still make for a nice fire-soaker as well as a good damage-dealer.

Against starcannons, these guys will be slaughtered. Given 2-3 turns worth of shooting, this shouldn't be hard (killing them in addition to the havocs. Honestly, they'd be just as weak as any other unit, since AP is a joke.

Overall though... it'd be close. HA! my post is as long as lost nemesis's.

Lictor; make sure you read the rules. You need to put your vote in bold, and unfortunately you need more than just one line talking about your vote.

Sounds like he was sick, so it's understandable.

[tiaxrulesall]

-i vote death guard

-they can get close to the eldar with infiltrate, and thus only have to suffer 1-2 shooting phases, also, they have more than enough fire to down the war walkers and vipers fast, thus crippling the eldar's shooting. The eldar charge will be reliativly ineffective due to T5, and the squads can be spaced out so if one squad dies, the squad that killed it will die due to shooting next turn. Also, if the Termies can DS they should be able to bring down one tank by firing at the back armor.

[Ezekiel1990]

Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis

Really, it probably won't be as one-sided as my explanation might seem; however, I think that if the Death Guard are used right, they can put up one heck of a fight and deal enough damage to the Eldar to take the win.

Remember, you vote based on the assumption that both players have the same skill, or you can base their skill ont he list they use, IE if there's a DE player in this tournament you can assume that he has at least half-way decent tactics. For these lists, I'd place them at the same level, so to say that if used right it could win could be an equal argument for the opposite side.