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Thread: Empire 2k

  1. #1
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    Depending on your comments, this could become my very first army.

    Lords:
    Templar Grandmaster, Holy Relic, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Sword of Might (270)

    Heroes:
    Battle Wizard, Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls (145)
    Captain, Full Plate Armor, Great Weapon (62)
    Captain, Full Plate Armor, Great Weapon (62)

    Core Units:
    19 Swordsmen, with full command (15
    10 Halberdiers (60)
    19 Swordsmen, with full command (15
    10 Halberdiers (60)
    10 Handgunner (80)
    10 Handgunner (80)
    9 Huntsmen (90)
    11 Inner Circle Knights, with full command (326)

    Special Units:
    9 Greatswords, with full command (13
    6 Pistoliers, Marksman with Repeater Handgun (136)
    Great Cannon (100)
    Mortar (75)

    Rare Units:
    (none)

    This sums up to exactly 2000 points.
    27% characters and magic items
    51% core units
    22% special units.

    The Grandmaster joins the Knights, the Wizard joins the Greatswords and the Captains each join a group of Swordsmen. Each unit of Swordsmen is assigned a detachment of Halberdiers.

    Question: Do 9 Greatswords and a Wizard together meet the unit size requirement of the Greatswords?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Slai's Avatar
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    Question: Do 9 Greatswords and a Wizard together meet the unit size requirement of the Greatswords?
    Answer: No. Sorry.

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    Unless your entire army is mounted,take a freaking elector count. Otherwise every one of your infantry blocks will be running away the second they lose combat by even 1. Also,halberders are sorta sucky. Free company make much better detatchments. Giving the speculum to your general is also a bad idea,because he wont be able to take full advantage of it. Give it to a mage or a hero. The jury is still out on mortars,they havent met to my satisfaction personally. 11 knights is waaay too much. 8 is a big number,if you want a huge block take 8. 9-10 Greatswords will also do nothing. They will hold someone up for a turn or two before dying off,or just simply get shot to death. Use the points from taking out the 3 knights and changing the halberders to FC to buy another 10 Greatswords. I cant stress this enough,

    So to recap,change the grandmaster to an elector count,tone down the knights,halberds to freecompany,more greatswords. Also,it would be good to add in another 5 swordmen to each unit.

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    Originally posted by Amroth@Mar 8 2004, 15:15
    So to recap,change the grandmaster to an elector count,tone down the knights,halberds to freecompany,more greatswords. Also,it would be good to add in another 5 swordmen to each unit.
    Thanks for your advices.

    > every one of your infantry blocks will be running away the second they lose combat by even 1.

    Why that? Did I miss any special rule? Comparing to the Elector Count the Grandmaster has +1 WS +1 A and (most important to me) immune to psychology for about 40 points. Being a hand-to-hand fighter I don't care for the -2 BS.

    > halberders are sorta sucky. Free company make much better detatchments.

    I have been chosing halberdiers because of their higher attack strength and, besides the slightly higher cost, I don't see any disadvantages in them.

    > Giving the speculum (...) to a mage or a hero.

    A former armydesign included a level 4 Wizard Lord with the speculum. I sometimes fantasised about a challenge between him and a Vampire or Chaos Lord. But I discarded the idea because it seemed too much like a simple trap.

    > mortars,they havent met to my satisfaction personally.

    Because of missfire or bad range guessing?

    > 11 knights is waaay too much (...) if you want a huge block take 8.

    *sigh* I would easily believe this if we were talking about Chaos or Bretonian Knights but these are "just" Imperial Knights.

    > 9-10 Greatswords will also do nothing.

    Probably. They were the last unit that I've chosen and I was running out of points. Would you also give them a detachment?

    I'll wait for another comment or two and then post a redesigned list. Seems I have still a lot to learn.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Colonel_Kraken's Avatar
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    I would advise simply bigger units. Pump up your standard infantry units until they're between 20 and 30, then you can focus on detachments. But that's just my opinion...........
    I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel allright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace, and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.

    Goblin kroozade of revengyness: win:19 draw:10 loss:9

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    Originally posted by Colonel_Kraken@Mar 9 2004, 04:22
    I would advise simply bigger units. Pump up your standard infantry units until they're between 20 and 30, then you can focus on detachments. But that's just my opinion...........
    > then you can focus on detachments

    What do you mean with focus? Whether I should take one or two detachments? Whether I should take hand-to-hand or missile detachments?

    > that's just my opinion

    That's just what I want to hear

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    You say the grandmaster is better because he has +1 attack and WS. Well...heres something you have to know. Empire generals suck at fighting. Aside from wood elves,we rank #14 on the list of best to worst hero choices. So why even bother,knowing your lord choice will suck anyways? Empire will run away because they have LD7. If they lose combat by 1,they take LD on a 6 or below. That may look like a 50/50 chance of running,but it is actually closer to 65/35 because your not rolling a D12. Your rolling 2d6,meaning there are many more than 12 results possible.


    You say the empire knights need numbers because they arent all that powerful. Well unless they get a strength bonus for every rank they have,or the lance formation,anything more than 5 is redundant,because their combat effectivness is exactly the same. The only reason to take large numbers is if you think your going to get shot up. Thats why i say 8. Its a semi-large number that isnt a point sink,and more importantly,your opponent sees a 4x2 unit of cavalry vs a 4x3 unit of cavalry,hes much less likely to focus all his attention on it.

    As for units,here is my and other better empire players experience:
    a good infantry unit consists of 25 men,with freecompany as detatchments. One detatchment is enough unless you think you need massive numbers. If you dont plan on using a marksmen in your handgunner squad,make them into a detatchmentt on the same unit. What are the benefits of this?
    1.they can stand and shoot for the parent unit
    2.they dont cause panic to your other troops

    The second one is the best. It means its one less morale check you have to take,and empire need to make as few as possible.

    now on to the halberders. What can i say. For 2 points more than freecompany you get 1 less attack at +1S. The light armour shouldnt even be considered,because against any opponent the haldberdiers would do well against opposed to FC(ie orcs or lizardmen) the enemy has atleast S4. Lets do some senarions

    Senario 1:5 halderdiers countercharge a squad of orcs. You hit on 4's and wound on 4's. Statisticly,thats a 12.5% chance of causing a wound.

    5 Free company charge the same orks. They need 4's to hit and 5's to wound. Statisticly,thats a 16.7% chance of causing a wound

    So you get a better chance of causing a wound and an extra 5 points left over if you choose the FC

    Senario2:5 halberdiers counter charge a squad of witches. They need 4's to hit 3's to wound. Thats a 16.6% of causing a wound. Saves dont matter

    5 FC charge a squad of witches. They need 4's to hit and 4's to wound Thats a 25% chance of causing a wound.

    Once again,the FC do better and cost less at the same time. The senarios were up against human statistic models and orc/saurus/chaos statistic models. Both times,the FC did better. And they cost less. I think that makes for a pretty obvious choice

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    If they lose combat by 1,they take LD on a 6 or below. That may look like a 50/50 chance of running,but it is actually closer to 65/35 because your not rolling a D12. Your rolling 2d6,meaning there are many more than 12 results possible.
    Most of the time, a unit testing on Ld6 will fail. The average result for a 2D6 roll is a 7.

    If you have high toughness enemies, (Orcs, chaos warriors, daemons etc) then big blocks of around 20-30 halberdiers are very good. Free Company make very good detachments.

    Electors can carry a magic banner, which can be useful in an infantry themed army. However, with a unit of knights that size (very hard to stop) you should have a mounted hero if possible. This would mean that you could break an army (if lucky) on the charge. To help, I'd give them the Standard of Arcane Warding (2 extra dispel dice against all spells).

    For the mounted hero, Templars do very well, as has been stated. The speculum is definately not a good idea with him though - leave that for the worse fighting heroes. He works well with the Sword of Power (effective Strength 6 every turn), Dawn Armour (effective 1+ re-rollable armour save) and I give him the Sigil of Sigmar when with my knights so that the have 3 dispel dice against targeting spells.

    Good luck

    Helborg


    (P.S - Empire heroes may not be as good as others; but thats why I give mine full amounts of Magic items - I've killed a black orc warboss in a challenge with an elector before)

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    Thanks for your advices. Let's see if I have learned something from them:

    Elector Count, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Holy Relic, Sword of Might (145)
    Captain, Full Plate Armor, Great Weapon (62)
    Captain, Full Plate Armor, Great Weapon (62)
    Battle Wizard, Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls (145)
    24 Swordsmen, full command (193), 8 Free Company (40)
    24 Swordsmen, full command (193), 8 Free Company (40)
    10 Handgunner, Marksman with Repeater Handgun (100)
    10 Handgunner, Marksman with Repeater Handgun (100)
    8 Inner Circle Knights, full command (24
    5 Huntsmen (50)
    24 Greatsword, full command (31, 8 Free Company (40)
    Great Cannon (100)
    6 Pistoliers, Marksman with Repeater Pistol (131)

    The Electour Count joins the Greatswords and the Captains join the Swordsmen.

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    Sword of power is an absolute waste of points on a GM. He automatically COMES with a lance. Your paying 40 points to make him get S6 past the initial round,even though knights should be breaking the other unit on the first round anyways. The best thing with a GM is a cavalry hammer or lance,and either laurels of victory and a defensive item,or full out defense. Personally,i think you should give him a cavalry hammer. KotWW are way better than normal knights IMO anyways,and there really arent many magic weapons(as in none) designed for mounted models.

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