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Hey guys, I've always been a 40k fan and was never ever interested in Fantasy AT ALL... Until a week or so ago, when a friend of mine who has armies upon armies of both 40k and fantasy (mostly 40k), told me that he believes that fantasy is a better game and I just want to further investigate
Now, perhaps someone could give me a little history or story about whats happening, where its all based (like 40k in space and on lots of planets), what types of armies are there and which ones they are (such as swarm armies are *blah blah* and the close combat armies are *blah blah* etc).
And... Maybe you could tell me a couple rules that make it so much different to 40k.
P.S I've been looking it up on some forums today, and atm I'm mostly interested in;
Daemons of Chaos
So, any info on any of those specificly would be great too.
You're asking kinda alot of questions, but here's answers to a few:
- it all takes place on a single world.
- Considered hordes are: Skaven, Ork, Empire, Vampire Counts and Tomb kings. All to a greater or lesser extent.
- 1 of the biggest changes to 40k is that the models come on square bases and the form solid units (most of the time, skirmishers work more like 40k) and the ranked up units work totally unlike 40k.
Also magic is much, much more potent than it is in 40k, every army will either have magic, or many ways of dealing with enemy magic.
-Everyone is close combat orientated, except perhaps dwarves, CC is something that will happen, every game (if it goes right). So no 40k style matches of just shooting.
Ah ok thanks mate.
Mhmm, well if its mostly CC, is the "magic phase" like the shooting phase in 40k?
Umm, which Codex's (what are the fantasy equivilents of codex's) havent been updated for a while?
And... Mhmm when you know nothing about something, it hard to know what to ask lol...
Ugh I'm not sure... Just some general info on some of the races would be great if you can, maybe fluff? Or a link to somewhere that can help.
Well since I really only just got interested in the last week, and only just started looking stuff up tonight, I dont think I would have the rulebook I could see if that mate of mine who told me he prefers fantasy, has the book though.
Well, I don't think of fluff at first but for example, when I was choosing a legion for my CSM army, and a craftworld for my Eldar, I made sure to pick one that hardly excluded anything, so I do use them as a bit of a guideline. (went Word Bearers, and a Biel-tan varient btw )
I do look for how it plays first I think, but again since I dont know the rules, I doubt I can judge what I prefer in an army.
Think I might be asking these questions a bit prematurely, next time I head off to my step dads place, I'll ask his son if I can check out his rulebook (thats the friend).
1. Skaven (outnumbering in combat)
2. VC (magic, outnumbering in combat)
3. Empire (All rounders, they can do anything well, nothing great)
4. Orcs & goblins (combat)
5. TK (magic, shooting, outnumbering)
6. Dwarves (shooting, anti magic)
7. Lizardmen (combat, magic)
Elite (few models)
1. Ogre kingdoms (combat)
2. Warriors of Chaos (combat, magic)
3. Wood elves (shooting, combat)
4. High Elves (combat, magic, shooting)
5. Dark elves (combat, magic, shooting)
6. Daemons (magic, combat)
7. Bretonnia (combat)
This is a rough representation, but largely accurate i feel.
Well, I guess for the first time in my tabletop gaming life, I can choose an army purely on looks if I want since I dont know how they work yet, already I've pretty much ruled out Bretonnia, Wood Elves, High Elves, and Empire (look boring to me).
I'll check back after I talk to my step brother about it, hopefully with some better questions ^.^ thanks
You could answer a lot of your own questions just by looking through the Games Workshop site. It has a dedicated section for each race and briefly goes through their background, ambitions, history and play style. Most also have a brief guide on getting started with that army, what the key units are and so forth.
Now, for a brief overview of WHFB (Warhammer Fantasy Battle):
- Each turn is split into four main phases, not unlike 40K. These are Movement, Shooting, Magic and Combat. Notably different from 40K is that Shooting and Magic are completely different and do not overlap (unlike Shooting and Psychic powers in 40K). It adds a whole new dimension to the game and every army will have to come up with a way to use, abuse or counter magic.
- Units are placed in 'rank' formation, much like traditional warfare before the invention of the firearm was. You typically have a unit leader, musician and standard bearer in the front rank along with any characters who have joined the unit. Then there are several ranks of regular troops behind. Moving these units requires a lot of planning and thought, since turning to face the side costs movement. Changing formation, pivoting, etc. all takes time and must be planned.
- Charging into combat is declared in the movement phase, and is the first thing done with that unit. This means that once you have declared a charge, that unit can do nothing else that turn except move into combat. In Combat, typically only the front rank will attack, but bonuses are gained for wounds done, extra ranks, standard, outnumbering and so on. The two units will compare Combat Resolution bonuses (as they're called) and the one with the most will win.
- Shooting is unreliable for most but the most potent races (Wood Elves, in particular, excel at shooting). Negative modifiers to rolls are common and penalties for moving and shooting, long range, reduced visibility (cover) etc are added together.
- Armour saves are often better and Ward Saves are introduced (like Invulnerable saves). These are also taken one after another and it's not uncommon to see very good saves such as a 1+/4+ save. The model will roll their Save and if they fail, they get to try their Ward save. The difference is that an Armour Save can be reduced by high strength weaponry. (eg, a Strength 4 attack typically has a -1 Armour Save modifier).
- Magic can only be cast by Wizards, or characters with specific magic items (wargear) that grant them the ability to cast spells. It's a complex system, but basically: Each Wizard has a level from 1-4 (4 being the best), and is granted a Power Dice per level. Spells require a certain value to be cast, for example a Fireball spell might require 7+. The Wizard chooses how many dice he wishes to use and attempts to get that value. More Power Dice can be gained by various means. The opponent can attempt to dispel this using his Dispel Dice (gained in similar ways). Some races have innate bonuses or penalties to casting or dispelling spells.
Sorry, I could go on forever. But summed up in a nutshell, these are the key differences between WHFB and WH40K:
In Warhammer Fantasy:
- Standard troops are typically weaker than in 40k, while Characters are typically far stronger. Regular army lists can be expected to have spent up to 40% on Characters alone, but it varies hugely.
- Combats are more often decided by clever maneuvering, flank charges, outnumbering and combinations of units working together than overpowering combat ability or attacks.
- Most games are played at 2000 points minimum. Anything lower and the High-level characters, spells or monsters cannot be used effectively or at all.
- Shooting is much less important than in 40K, where it tends to rule all.
- Most races are able to focus almost exclusively on Magic, Shooting, Combat or an all-round list if they wish, but most are reasonably competitive. Lizardmen, for example, have some of the best Magic-users in the game but also rock hard troops. Achieving the balance the challenge.
- While Characters can become incredibly powerful and cost well over 400pts in some cases, they cannot go it alone. A troop unit with 4 ranks, standard bearer and musician will usually win combat from passive bonuses alone against a lone character.
- Much less terrain and scenery is used, cover is usually quite rare.
- Every unit has it's own M (Movement) value. Regular men typically move 4, while Dwarves move 3, Elves move 5 for example. Marching (running) and Charging can be done at twice this.
- Fantasy is a bit more complex and tactical than it's 40k counterpart. Movement often requires planning in advance and it can take several turns to execute complicated maneuvers.
It's by no means an exhaustive list, but I hope that helps. If you have any questions, fire away!
Wow... Just wow, thankyou SO much raven that actually cleared up so much, including questions I'm assuming I was going to ask in a week or so
*phew* ok so... Yeah it definitely sounds more complex and tactical but that definitely intrigues me as I find some of the 40k rules just dont work properly and are also too simple.
I've been scouring the GW site for quite some time today but I think im a little easily distracted, and I just got caught up looking at the different models But, I'll go back now and have a closer look.
I also heard about something called, "fear" I think there were a couple variations of it, but another guy said it played a pretty big part in the game, what is it?
Also jw, did you just write all that up just then? If so... Bravo, I really appriciate it
Haha, yep I did. Anyway..
Something I completely forgot to add was how large parts of the game revolve around Psychology, much more than 40k. Leadership values are typically slightly lower also. A Night Goblin army (variant of the Orc and Goblins list) can expect to typically have a maximum Ld of 7 on it's Lord and 5 for troops. Morale plays a huge part in how tactics are played out and several lists are designed to out-Leadership their opponents. A unit that decides to run away can trigger the unit next to it to break moral also. Central to this concept are the various types of Psychology: Fear, Hatred, Frenzy.
Some units, typically Undead or servants of Chaos, cause Fear. In basic terms this means that any unit wishing to charge or shoot them must pass a Leadership test first, but it plays a part in several other places too. Other units, whereby from special rules, magic items or spells, can be made Immune to Fear and so bypass this Leadership test. There also exists the rule 'Terror', which is a more potent version. Units that are Immune to Fear will still be subject to Terror, and units that aren't even immune to Fear will face severe consequences. Typically, creates that cause Terror are things like Dragons, Greater Daemons etc.
Hatred is a special rule given to some races or units that affect how they perform on the battlefield. They might be able to strike more effective against units they hate for example. Frenzy allows a unit to attack with more ferociousness in combat but limits their flexibility as they will typically just rush towards the nearest enemy.
A quick example is this:
Night Goblins are normally cowardly and weak creatures that frequently run away. But against Dwarves, they come into their own. Night Goblins Hate Dwarves and so will receive bonuses fighting them. However, Goblins also Fear Elves they don't outnumber 2:1, so great care has to be taken when fighting High Elves for instance.
Another example is the Vampire Counts or Tomb Kings armies. Almost every model in those armies causes Fear, which makes it incredibly difficult to counter with low Leadership armies such as Skaven or Goblins. But in turn they have disadvantages of their own, such as incredibly fragile (but scary) troops.
Hope that helps. It's really a bit too in-depth to explain quickly but it adds a very interesting dimension to the game and makes it a lot more varied than 40k, where typically every unit has super high Leadership to the point where nothing really runs away anymore. I remember playing a game once, my Night Goblins against Wood Elves, where my entire army ran away before I even got my first turn in. The Wood Elf player managed to take out the unit with my General in from concentrated shooting in Turn 1 and killed him, causing every unit nearby to take a Ld test on Ld 5 - all of which ran promptly off the board.