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There is a discussion about this in the TK forum but I thought I could get some other views if I asked in a more general forum. Is there any good reason to keep guess weapons when 8th edition comes out? I am referring to getting rid of the guess portion and just choosing a unit within range, then roll scatter & artillery dice as normal. So far I have seen two reasons that people give for keeping guess weapons.
1) It allows you to over/under-guess in order to hit a hiding/out of LOS unit that would be a better target(cheating by the rules but sometimes hard to spot).
2) Guessing distance is a skill that is learned through experience with the game. This means that it is a way to show greater competence in a player's generalship.
So, basically what I am hearing is that guess weapons are good to have in the game because: A) They allow players to cheat and hit untargetable units, and They give good/experienced players an advantage over worse/new players.
I don't see either one of those as a reason to keep guess weapons and actually think that they are two reasons that guess weapons should be removed from the game. Anyone else out there have a legitimate reason for keeping guess weapons in the new edition?
Realism jumps to mind. Back in the day, firing a cannon required you to guess the arc to shoot at to hit your target. Not that much is realistic in warhammer. The other reason would be that guess ranges allow a chance that the unit being targeted will be missed. If you remove the guess part of the weapon, you would have to raise the cost to compensate for this lack.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
if you have a look at guess range weapons in general they tend to sport templates and ignore saves. the guess weapon rule is there not only for historical accuracy but for a good bit of balance as well.
can you imagine how deadly a dwarf stone thrower with rune of accuracy would be if the dwarf player could just plant the template anywhere he wanted and just roll dice? 5/9 chance of a direct hit... it would oblitterate armies >_<
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[16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
[00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^
I think it's fun, too. It's an element of the game mechanics. We guess if chargers are in range, if shooters are in ranger, and for some war machines, too. And that guessing makes it in part a game.
I think guessing is a very important part of how war machines work and I'd hate to see it go. Just placing a template and rolling the dice would make war machines far more effective. I think they are balanced the way they are. As for over and under guessing intentionally there is a bit of a thin line. Its not something i've seen people try with any regularity and it just requires a little bit of common sense and sportsmanship for it not to be a problem.
I cant myself think of a way of replacing it, I like the way it works.
Moved to the general warhammer area. This isn't a rules question as such, so this is where it's best placed.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
Thanks Rork, this is where I wanted it in the first place but for some reason I couldn't find this section.
So, maybe the weapons would be too powerful if they auto-hit the target and just used the scatter/artillery dice for deviation?I think this is a good point. Since the unit is not rolling to hit, the distance guessed allows for a possible miss.The other reason would be that guess ranges allow a chance that the unit being targeted will be missed.
Thanks for the replies so far. Like I said, I was just looking for a good reason to keep the "guess" rule in the game and I had not really heard anything compelling. Personally, I would like to see "guess" retired and just use the BS of units for all shooting attacks.