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  1. #1
    Member Beardy Bearderson's Avatar
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    Tomb Kings/Warriors of Chaos/Beastmen?

    Hello/Bonjour everybody, I am not new to Fantasy, I get to play a game here and there with my Wood Elves and I can boast a decent win ratio. But a few months ago a serious problem arose... my local Games Workshop supplier went out of business and I no longer have a place to play games or to purchase army books and models from (and Im reluctant to begin buying online).

    I had been thinking of starting up a second Fantasy army for the last 6 months, and was looking for a specific army that would fit my needs and also be the polar opposite to how my Wood Elves feel, look and play (getting a little bored of playing the Woodies all the time). So i've narrowed it down to three armies and now have no idea which to chose. SO I thought I would post here and ask. there are several very important qualities I needed my second army to possess:

    - the ability to field many effective chariots.
    - have access to better armour options than Wood Elves.
    - have access to warmachines, tarpits, and lots of dedicated close combat specialists.
    - must be at least decent in the magic phase (as I find my Wood Elf magic isn't the greatest) - I need my armies to have varied playing styles. I am very much a collector and like to have large armies (I often shoot to aquire 10,000 points per army to maximize the variety in my unit selections when I do play).

    I own a copy of the Warriors of Chaos army book, as well as the Tomb Kings book. both of which seem to share all of these qualities... i'm wondering if I can get the actual opinions from players of each of the three armies i'm looking to begin collecting... do you find that there is enough variety in your army to keep you interested? do you find your army is rife with tactical options or lacking in variety when it comes to tactical uses?also, there are apparently rumours concerning an update to Tomb Kings... is this true and when are they expected to be redone?

    can someone who has experience with the new Beastmen army book let me know how viable a chariot-heavy army with maybe some flank chargers would be effective?thanks.... sorry for the long post...

    Last edited by Beardy Bearderson; March 10th, 2010 at 20:31.

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  3. #2
    i am da Wahhchief Digger's Avatar
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    Hey Beardy welcome to LO!

    Your name suggests Dwarfs.. theyre quite the opposite to wood elves, why not go for that?
    Otherwisei would say, go for the best looking models!!

    I sold my beasts a long time ago, and have no play experience with TK but still have an opinion that i love to share

    - Beastmen are newly redone and you can play these guys for another 10 years without facing too much change.
    Their chariots are core, i dont play em but the people who play the new book say the chariots are not the cheese choice from the list
    There are also complaints that they are now way to similar to playing wood elfs. (not counting the ambushing)
    Did you see the new centigors? niiice

    - Warriors oC has very expensive chariots, so you wont be using many of these, in fact, i almost do not see them used at the moment. Theyre almost as expensive as High elf lion chariots but instead of fearcauser, this one has a good armoursave.
    They are special choice, so they compete with powerful chaos knights, trolls, ogres and dragonogres. All very nice choices to use. Of the three armies, this one has the most diverse list, and while the other two armies have only 1 or 2 basic 'winlists' this one is very diverse, you can choose certain marked armies, nurgle lists work well, so do khorne/tzeentch, or perhaps mostly Slaanesh lists. last tournament there were players of all marks and they all scored quite well. (a nurglelist with 1 chariot came in 2nd)

    - Cheap chariots for TK, theyre also a must if you plan on playing competitive. like Wood elfs, very dependant on tactical play.
    If they will be next armybook is only a rumour, but right now its looking like 8th edition, then tomb kings (late this year?) So youl have about half a year to play this army before it loses its fluff xD
    Anyway.. chariots. Lots of chariots and Tomb scorpions :p

    Good luck choosing, hope you find a new place to play games..
    Eternal Newbie

    Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs

  4. #3
    Junior Member 8people's Avatar
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    Who's complained about Beastmen playing like Wood Elves? o_0 That's nonsense. Also the Centigor models aren't new - just a new box.

    I play Wood Elves, Beastmen and have Tomb Kings as well. (Dark Elves too, but they're not involved in this topic)

    From the three options you've posted I'd say Warriors of Chaos are the most different from Wood Elves.

    In terms of warmachines, Warriors of Chaos have the Hell Cannon which is pretty much the only way they get a shooting phase Tomb Kings have a catapult which causes fear and scorpions which burrow up around enemies - both of these weapons can scatter here, there and everywhere for someone unpracticed with guess weaponry. Beastmen have a stone thrower which is relatively expensive but has interesting special rules.

    Magic wise Beastmen aren't necessarily your number one choice as a magic army. Tomb Kings have a different magic system to the majority of armies but it's similar to Wood Elves in the fact it's tactical magic more than destructive. Warriors of Chaos are your team if you want powerful, destructive magic - they have three lores available that no other army can take which are damn right mean as well. (I do disagree that Wood Elf magic isn't great though)

    All three armies can hold their own in combat - as long as you're in the right combat! Overall Warriors are a bunch of anvils that can take a heavy pounding, laugh, and crack open the bewildered chaps skull who just whacked them. Tomb Kings I haven't played around all that much but seem similar to Beasts in the fact you need to choose combat carefully depending on what units you are lining up, Tomb Kings have the benefit of being able to regenerate skeletons, Beastmen have the benefit that they can pop up from a random table edge and poke your opponent in the ribs.

    Rumours on the Tomb King update are very much that - Rumours. At first the theory was widely spread they were up for May - but that's now Orcs and Goblins so our best bet is an update after the release of 8th edition. Warriors were updated recently and are powerful, versatile and can be mixed in a variety of ways to allow for a wide range of strong and feasible options to match your playing style. Beastmen are balanced, we have quite a few really good things and a lot of challenges in our army. A lot of players stand by a few units that are a 'must have' to ensure victory (Generally minotaurs, potentially chariots and minimum core requirement spending - which usually means taking Ungor Raiders over chariots - but Chariots are just fine themselves) Tuskgor and Razorgor chariots are quite effective and Beastmen are the only updated army to retain core chariots - Tomb Kings only have that option at 2kpoints or higher.

    Personally, for what you appear to want (text wall is a little tricky to pick out sentences to refer to after reading a couple of times ) I would reccomend Warriors of Chaos, you already have the book so have a good idea of what to expect and there are a lot of experiences players to assist you in the specific forum for further advice.
    Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
    40k: Tyranids
    LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan

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    i am da Wahhchief Digger's Avatar
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    8people is correct. my notes on woodelfs made no sense and the centigors are apparently not even new, i should have been a good boy and drank my coffee first
    (drinking it now though)

    Sorry Beardy.
    Eternal Newbie

    Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs

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    Junior Member 8people's Avatar
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    The odd thing? Since my post I had two people comment on similarities between new Beasts and Wood Elves. One of them supposedly a vet player of both (Funny, he was discussing having an intro game the other day...) and the other hadn't appeared to have read the Beastmen book, he still thought they were all skirmishers but had archer units as well now. Overall I was rather bewildered :lol:

    I think White Dwarf is to blame for a lot of people thinking the centigor models are new as well - on one issue they had someones unit which was a conversion job (thank god, I prefer the current models!) so when I was assembling my unit (bought for last Christmas) I had a few people going "ARE THEY THE NEW CENTIGOR? THEY LOOK REALLY DIFFERENT!"

    Kinda just shows how unloved Beasties really are, lol!

    Saying that apparently Tomb Kings are the least played, but I'm certain Beasts are close behind with a lot of opinions I've seen. Maybe there should be a league online on the GW site! May ask boyfriend, but he's asleep currently...
    Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
    40k: Tyranids
    LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan

  7. #6
    Member Beardy Bearderson's Avatar
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    thanks for the welcome Digger, so far this forum seems great. I love the fluff of Dwarfs but they don't cater well to my playing style at all unfortunately. oh, and no apologies needed, I already knew that new beasts played nothing like my woodies :p

    Actually looking at the WoC chariots compared to chariots in the other lists I have access to they are quite durable, and have some of the best crew in the whole game, not to mention the fact that you can mark them (something I heard Beastmen can't do to thier chariots) and that when you mount a hero in them they are even cheaper, but retain thier incredible save... I would say the fact that you wouldn't see many chariots in a WoC list is because thier knights are statistically better... and because lots of people (at least in my area) prefer not to play with chariots. I would say they have one of the best chariot options in the game (would prefer cold one mounts, but can't have everything).

    after doing alot more reading around this forum and elsewhere, I have decided to forego collecting Tomb Kings, firstly, because they offer very little variety, and secondly because they offer very little in the way of modelling and painting...@ 8people: seems that we have very similar tastes in armies as I used to play Dark Elves before I switched to Wood Elves .
    I actually wouldn't mind using some guess-weaponry I know they take a little practice to use effectively, but i'm sure it would add some fun randomness to my games, which I mostly lack with my Woodies. I also think that while Wood Elf magic has a real synergy with the armylist, that I would almost never take a SpellWeaver.... Highborns just add so much more to my armies than anything from the lore of athel loren or beasts ever could... the lore of Life if used correctly is a different story though (but is also slightly situational).

    anything of relevance you could tell me about the beastmen before I can get a chance to drive down south and pick up the new book would be great. and I do have many questions:

    - I have the old Beasts book and I remember reading about Gorthor and writing up lots of fluffy lists to include him in.... is he still a part of the new book? and is he still mounted in a chariot?

    - any idea when they will be updating the beasts model range to include the new rare choices and the new chariots?

    - is it true that the new beasts do not have access to any of the chaos marks?

    - do the new beasts really only have access to one skirmishing unit? how good is this skirmishing unit in comparison to skink skirmishers?

    - are the core troops and special choices overly expensive or is it possible to build a varied horde list?

    - can you tell me anything more about thier new warmachine?

    - I rememeber that thier item list was severely lacking in the old book, how do the weapons, armour and other goodies in the new book stack up to the ones in the vampire book, or even the WoC book?

    Anything else you can tell me about the beasts would be appreciated theroughly. thanks for your posts so far, looking forward to more
    Last edited by Beardy Bearderson; March 12th, 2010 at 23:17.

  8. #7
    Junior Member 8people's Avatar
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    - Gorthor is still in the book on a chariot. As I don't pay attention to special characters in my army lists I cannot compare.

    - Nope. I'm making my own.

    - True. They are not Beasts of Chaos, they are Beastmen - they are already servants of chaos just by existing - why reward the hordes that serve by their very existance? The warriors earn their rewards throug loyalty, the daemons are created of chaos itself and of the realms of the chaos gods. The Beastmen? Born of ill fortune and touched by chaos so they can do no other than create more of it.

    - Two, Harpies as they are flying and Ungor Raiders which are the only archer unit.

    - If you're asking me the plausibility of powerful armies I am not one to ask, my armies are based on fluff and personal preference. In this regard you can build as you wish. The horde aspect is muted, it cannot compare to Greenskins, Empire, Skaven or the like, they are perhaps relatively expensive. Most people do not see any of the core choices as worthwhile except the minimum requirement of archers and pumping up on minotaurs with a rare thrown in for the lols.

    - They don't have a warmachine. They have a Cygor, this is a Minotaur who existed under the furthest reaches and lived under where the chaos gates fell, they grew and mutated so they are almost blind except they can see magic and get to reroll against it whenever they encounter it, they are a stone thrower.

    - If you expect beasts magic in any fashion to stand up against Vampire Counts or Warriros of Chaos prepare to be horribly, terribly, impossibly disappointed. There are a scant few things people see are must haves... if there are points left for it.

    I play armies that are very different to one another. I was also 'barred' from playing Warriors, Skaven, Lizardmen and Vampire Counts by a partner possessive of his armies (and potential ones) so I do not necessarily have an 'even' spread of armies.
    Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
    40k: Tyranids
    LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan

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