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General - Aiden the Brave: 263 pts
Sword, Lance, Heavy armor, shield, barded warhorse, grail vow, virtue of discipline, Birth Sword of carcassonne and armour of the midsummer sun.
Battle Standard Bearer: 122 pts
Sword, heavy armor, barded warhorse, questing vow, virtue of duty, banner of chalons
Damsel of the Lady: 159
Upgrade to level 2, riding barded warhorse, silver mirror.
Damsel of the Lady: 95 pts
1 dispel magic scroll
Paladin: 70 pts
Sword, Heavy Armour, Knight's vow, virtue of empathy
6 Knights of the Realm: 240 pts
Gallant, Musician and Standard Bearer
9 Knights of the Realm: 312 pts
Gallant, Musician and Standard Bearer
7 Knights Errant: 214 pts
[i]Cavalier and Standard Bearer[ with Errantry Banner/i]
16 Men at Arms with spears: 122 pts
Yeoman Warden, Musician and Standard Bearer, accompanied by knight hero on foot
17 Men at Arms with Halberds: 127 pts
Yeoman Warden, Musician and Standard Bearer
13 Peasant Bowmen: 105pts
Musician and Standard Bearer, accompanied by Damsel of the lady on foot
14 Peasant Bowmen: 111 pts
Musician and Standard Bearer
Total: 1232 pts
6 Questing Knights: 233 pts
Paragon and Musician, accompanied by BSB
3 Pegasus Knights: 285 pts
Gallant, and Musician
4 mounted Yeomen: 117 pts
Warden, Musician, unit equipped with shields
Total: 635 pts
6 Grail Knights: 334 pts
Musician and Standard Bearer accompanied by the General
Army total: 2910 pts
12 Peasant Archers: 84 pts
Upgrade to skirmishers to move along one of my flanks
1 Trebuchet: 90 pts (100 if upgrading one crewmember to a Yeoman Craftsman)
Substitute the unit of Halberders with even more bowmen if I'm facing an enemy with large units that have low armor saves. (Goblins, skinks and Skaven), make them scurry off the field so my knights can worry about the tougher units.
**Other options: Equip the 2 KoTR units and the Grail Knight unit with Magical banners with the points left over such as the Twilight Banner and the Conqueror's Tapestry and if the enemy uses a ton of war machines the banner of defence would be perfect for those grail knights, upgrading their ward save from +5 to +4 on missile attacks of S5 or higher
Total points: 80
Or Subtract the General's magical armor (45 pts) and add 3 more Grail knights to his retinue, increasing the unit's size to 12 total so they can smash into those groups of Iron breakers or Black orcs which usually won't break on the first turn of combat with the Grail knights.
Upgrading the level 1 wizard to a level 2 wizard and give her another dispel magic scroll and give one of the other knightly heroes a cheap magic item or two can also be a good thing, depending on the circumstances.
Total points: 60+
It's pretty much the typical Bretonnian army. Use the peasants as screens and sandtrap units while you prepare for the charge. The Yeoman can take away the enemy's march move and harrass their flanks with their bowfire and then run away. Pegasus Knights can take out enemy war machines with ease and can charge some enemy missile troops from the rear and their toughness and multiple wounds are a boon. I absolutely love this addition to the Bretonnian army.
The hero on foot is almost a must in an army with so many M@A's because they have such low leadership and because of the virtue of empathy, any peasant within 12 of him would be able to use his leadership so long as he isn't the army's general, making my M@A's that much harder to break.
The 3 core units of knights can put a hurtin' on most units on the charge with their S5 (and in the Knights Errants case, S6) lances.
The only major weaknesses I see this army having is that it won't have missile superiority over an army like the empire or dwarves and the new blessing of the lady is great and all but nowhere near as effective as the old one against those armies. That can be overcome though, since the Bretonnians are the 2nd most mobile army in Warhammer.
Well, tell me what you think.
A few suggestions:
16 and 17 M@A are too few or too many, field at least 20 for them to be worthwhile. Even as tarpit units, either go with 10 no command, or 20+ with the trimmings. Seriously, 2x20 guys are a threat that can't be ignored, even if they are peasants. Oh, use spears. Spears spears spears. And hand weapons.
Make one bowman unit skirmishers, it increases their usefulness immeasurably. And for god's sake ditch their banner, if they're in close combat then they've already lost. If you really want to, leave the damsel with the static unit, but honestly I think she's better off on a unbarded horse in a lance. Oh yeah, don't bother with the barding on their horses, if something has already punched through a unit of 2+ armor 5/6+ ward knights to get to her, do you think it will help? I'd go with two dispel scrolls instead of the silver mirror... it's really tempting to take it and a lot of fun when you wound the enemy mage, but unless you kill him dead it really isn't worthwhile. You'll still have to get him in hand to hand or by other means to finish him off, unless it's skaven who might concievably be relied on to do it themselves.
You should probably give your empathy knight a shield... with hw+sh and heavy armor, he's dead tough in cc.
You need one more mounted yeoman, 5 is the unit minimum. Give them the musician, and shields, but nothing else. The Warden costs one or two points shy of a whole new model, for an extra attack in close combat? Why not invest the extra point for a whopping TWO extra attacks, one more bowshot, another wound and 2 more unit strength?
The KE really needs their musician, man. They crave their tunes, young as they are. Also, they're the most likely to run away, so more than the rest needs help rallying.
If you need points for all this, I'd think of the units you're going to have characters in, and size them accordingly. I usually have a unit of 7 KE with a paladin and a damsel, for instance, making it a neat 3x3 block. What you've done will usually leave on or two knights trailing behind, which allows for shooting casualties but makes your flanks bigger and manouvring harder. Either add more to fill a rank, or cut them down in size.
Whew... okay, a lot of suggestions.
Men at arms suck,unless your going for a theme(which isnt very good for a new player IMHO) stick to knights. Also,the magic unit number is 9 when it comes to your cavalry blocks,anything less doesnt take advantage of their rules to the full extend,anymore more is too unweildy. And finnaly,bret magic is sub-par,try sticking to a scroll caddy.
Add those to the unit of 16 M@A's and you have a unit of 20. I made the mistake of not listing the actual unit size. Just the number of troops I didn't upgrade to a SB or musician or champion. Sorry about the mixup there.Yeoman Warden, Musician and Standard Bearer, accompanied by knight hero on foot
My actual unit numbers look like this.
9 Knight Errants
19 M@A's with a knightly hero
15 Bowmen + Wizard
8 Questing Knights + BSB
5 Pegasus Knights
8 Grail Knights + General
*enough points left over to increase one unit's size, buy another unit of bowmen or a trebuchet or buy magic standards for my heavy hitters. It all depends on the situation. I like having some flexibility.
Also, I had the Knight hero on foot listed with an enchanted shield but I must have accidentally deleted it in an edit.
I can however see your point in leaving standards out of units of bowmen. Not much point for them there really, except for looks.
The Knights Errants are part of my 2nd wave and I've never had much trouble with them breaking in combat. Though they have only average stats they can do plenty of damage on the charge. I never have or will I ever plan on placing them anywhere near a group of elite troops like Chaos Warriors/Knights or anything that CAN break them after a turn. I know it wouldn't hurt to give them a musician but I was trying to skimp on points.
I've also had extremely good luck with M@A's halberders, putting a dent in anything I can get them to charge but I think that's just me. A lot of the other bretonnian generals I talk to say that they don't like them at all. That additional strength is really hard to ignore, especially when you look at their other lackluster stats. (2 WS anyone?) Can also be nice when you're fighting orcs.
M@A's can be an excellent unit if there's a knight close enough for the unit to use it's high leadership mainly because their high numbers. Their standards are worthless to the enemy, they're cheap as dirt and can be thrown into massive units making the bretonnian army a pseudo horde army.
The silver mirror put the killing blow on a necromancer that was giving me trouble in a 2000 point match I played a week ago and softened up a skaven warlock enough so that my knightly lord on a pegasus could finish him off in one turn 3 days ago. I have no problem paying the additional 25 pts for it so long as I continue to have similar success.
Oh, I see, this looks much better. I would still dump the yeoman warden from the MY unit, and make a skirmisher bowman unit.
KE usually won't break on the charge, but they're vulnerable to panic. Why not charge the unit of chaos knights though? With superior strength and the same toughness and armor save as KotR, a better save than QK, all of whom hit on 4+ and are hit on 3+, KE are actually more likely to hurt such a unit and stand their ground than the rest. And if they do break, it's not as big a crisis as losing a more elite unit.
Keep in mind that a foot knight with heavy armor, handweapon and shield has a 3+ save in close combat, and a foot knight with heavy armor, handweapon and an enchanted shield has a... 3+ armor save. So I'd go with the normal shield, but if you insist on using the enchanted variety how about giving him a morning star?
M@A rock, but if you have a few points over I'd consider beefing them up even more. 25 guys is ideal, I think. Just don't buy a trebuchet, it has no place in such an army.
KE with the errantry banner charging a unit of chosen knights with 2 hand weapons MAY do damage on the first turn. busts up their armor save a bit but in subsequent turns they don't reduce it anymore so it's basically throwing a unit of troops away. I'd much rather slam my grail knights into them on the charge. At least there's a chance that the GK unit will kill off the entire unit of chosen knights in the first turn and they're also immune to psychology and a +5 ward save against attacks at S5 or higher.
KE are best suited to smashing into an enemy that has one unit of your knights tied up. A block stubborn or unbreakable enemies holding fast against your Questing Knights? Send in the Knights Errant to fight alongside them.
The trebuchet can be a monster of a warmachine if used properly by a bretonnian general. I watched some guy play with 2 of them in a 2000 point match and I was baffled at how easily he ruined entire units of orcs. A few lucky rolls and some good guesstimation can go a long way with those things.
It's one of those units that you need a lot of experience with to make useful. And since I've been playing Bretonnia almost exclusively since 96' I'm having a bit of trouble using it. No artillery of any kind for Bretonnia was a huge mistake in 5th edition yet the 3rd edition models they had some crude cannonry. :hmm:
All knights have the ward save when you pray, which I assume you do with such a knight heavy army. And of course it's preferable to use GK over KE, it's always preferable to use GK over anything, that's why I cunningly let them out of my example.
The trebuchet is a monster that can wreak big scale havoc, but it still doesn't belong in an army like this one. Since all your knights will rush ahead and engange the enemy in melee, what will it shoot at? All the juicy blocks of infantry are in combat, so you'll be trying to hit small units of cavalry, screeners, war machines, single characters etc.