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I don't have all the results for the LA one yet (I'll post them if I can find them), but I do have the results from the main Chicago, Battle Bunker event, as well as the PA event, and a lot of semi-finals results. I have to admit, they're a bit surprising, especially when you consider my preconceived notions of the tiers of competitiveness of the armies.
Well, without further delay we'll start with the results. At PA it was:
1st: Chaos Daemons (Kairos, flamers, troop heavy, no bloodletters)
3rd: Chaos Daemons
The winner found that the ability to heal Kairos with Lore of Life made him all but unkillable, even when facing cannon heavy armies, which tipped the odds greatly in his favor.
For the LA event, all I know is:
At the Chicago Battle Bunker, the results were:
Tied for 1st: Skaven (horde, plenty of magic, no Ogres, no Doomwheels)
Dark Elves (hydra and crossbow spam)
All in all, the final results weren't too surprising (except for perhaps that the heavily favored Warriors of Chaos and High Elves didn't make it to the final 4). What is surprising, is looking at the number of players of each army at the semi-finals (collected from many sources over the internet). Keep in mind, they had to finish in the top 3 of the first round in order to make it to the semis, so all these were proven armies:
Chaos Warriors: 12
High Elves: 11
Chaos Daemons: 7
Orcs & Goblins: 5
Dark Elves: 4
Vampire Counts: 2
Ogre Kingdoms: 2
Tomb Kings: 0
Wood Elves: 0
I have to admit, I was wrong when I previously said in another post that Dwarves seemed mid-tier and Brets seemed low-tier. The Dwarves were out in force, and although they didn't seem to finish in the top spots, they seemed to have no trouble qualifying for the semis.
Even more surprising are that there were so many Bret players that made it to the semis. For all the people calling them a bad army, the Bret players seem to know something that they don't, because going by these numbers, they're doing better than half the armies in the game.
Vampire Counts didn't have too many players, but the VC players that were there both did very well in the semis (both qualifying for finals) with 200-300 ghoul hordes. To me, this suggests that this might be the only viable build the army has.
The other 'lower tier' armies weren't shocking. Despite getting a lot better, my poor Ogre Kingdoms still have a lot of trouble at high point levels, especially with Purple Sun getting cast so easily.
I was shocked that there were more Orc & Goblin players than there were Lizardmen and Dark Elf players. I was also a little surprised that without exception, every last one of the High Elf semi-finalists (that chose to include the makeup of their list) included Teclis in it.
Okay, I wasn't that surprised. ^_^
So if we take this as a measure of competitiveness (at least at high point levels) these seem to be the tiers:
Skaven, Dwarves, Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Empire, Chaos Daemons, Bretonnians, Orcs & Goblins, Lizardmen, Dark Elves
Beastmen, Vampire Counts, Ogre Kingdoms
I know this is hardly definitive, but it is intriguing. What do you think?
Last edited by mynameisgrax; October 31st, 2010 at 16:29.
That sounds about right. I am suprised there being that many bretonnians, but I wasn't all that suprised with your conclusion they weren't low tier. Their secret lies in the fact they have cavalry with easy ranks. 12 knights of the realm, if they kill 1 model, can remove steadfast from a unit of 25 infantry models in ranks of 5 wide. That is their major difference to all other cavalry. They also have a good stone thrower and cheap peasants, but I think it is mostly the ranked cavalry, which really makes a difference.
And yeah, dwarfs proved you wrong >:-D
I started playing them because I thought they were cool, and now the ruleset brought them back to the high tier! I also always wanted to do skaven just because I though they were cool.. well, guess what the new rules did? :p
But daemons are really not down to tier 2 like everyone says. Last week I fought 2500 pts against a beginner who just started with fantasy and had daemons for a few weeks. He had 9 juggers which is a huge part of his force, and of which I killed 6 before they hit me, and yet still the rest of his army was such a ridiculous grind I won only barely Stupid daemonic instability.. daemons are still very much tier 1. High elves are a bit between tier 1 and 2. They are good, but not OMGZ! nor do they have an easy answer to everything. They are still squishy.
Daemons are a little odd. In some circumstances they do very well (they did win the PA Ard Boyz, taking 1st and 3rd), but you still don't see them played that often. Perhaps the cost of the models puts many people off, although with cheap bloodletters, pink horrors, daemonettes, and bloodcrushers, they aren't nearly as expensive as they used to be.
Personally, I feel they're still mid-tier because their Lord choices are all very expensive, and their special choices are a bit lack luster. Also, their heroes lost a bit of ground to other armies with the new 8th edition basic magic items, since they can't take them.
This leaves us mainly with Core and Rare choices, and at lower point levels, it's pretty much all going to be core. However, their core is indeed very good, putting them at the high end of mid tier, in my opinion.