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I prefer there to be no special characters on the table
I don't mind my opponent using special characters
I was just curious what you think about the use of special characters in battles. I've seen people complain about them and defend them, so I thought I'd post a little poll and find out. Do you mind when your opponent uses a special character?
I'm referring to the official special characters found in the army books, not custom made ones.
There are some special characters out there that, in my opinion, are scary and shouldn't be allowed on the table. Then there are those that have some fun rules but are not insanely powerfull and roflstomp whatever it comes into contact with. I usually dissuade the use of them, but some are worse than i others i would say.
I'd rather that books came with rules to make a general more special or maybe characters in general. There are several armybooks that have character rules like Vampires, Ogres, Khainite Dark Elves, Slaan in Lixardmen and a few others.
Though a wider range of rules alterations would be nifty. Perhaps an option to switch core and special around with a particular general, or other such tactical themes that a general can take, such as skirmish bonuses or themed around sea battles or such.
Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan
I agree with the others on this.
Some characters are fun, like the masque, green knight or Grom the Paunch. As long as they offer less of a powerboost (or are just plain weird : Masque)
Some are just no fun playing against. Some are either too powerfull and whenever some even game-breaking.
Thorek, Skarsnik, Teclis, Be'lakor, theyre just too much influence to the army, i'd say they should cost double their cost
I'd like to see 8Peeps ideas come true and have lots of options to create special generals yourself.
Another problem is that the special characters create so many rule-holes and loopholes, because of their 'special' rules that the Basic rules are not in synch with. Only if GW spends a little more thought on their rules, will i be willing to go to tourneys that allows them.
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
Many special characters simply have some fun effects and are ok to use. Sadly the ones that tend to be used are the powerful ones, like Skulltaker, the masque, Teclis and the changeling.
Thorek isn't that big of a deal anymore. He costs 505, about 150 pts more then a normal runelord on anvil of doom to strike his runes on 3+ instead of 4+ ( and failure = roll on misfire table ) and has only 1 reroll per game. He also sucks up the master rune of gromril ( grants a 1+ save, can only be bought once per army ) which every dwarf player reserves for their battle standard bearer. Skarsnik is not so bad either as he's expensive for a couple of fun tricks.
The ones that are too powerfull to be allowed in my opinion are Skulltaker ( he just kills everything. He can kill Lords three times his cost ), the masque ( 90 pts for something with a 3+ ward, is good at fighting and has unstoppable abilities?! Nuts )and Teclis ( stupid elves ). I'm sure theres a bunch of others too but I currently can't think of them.
Masque is good but i still think characters like Archeon and Grimgor still rank as the most annoying things out there. Not that they sorta dont die in CC, but with their added buffs they give such a boost to the army in general. Grimgor has his Immortals and Archeon...well he is Archeon, nuff said ^^
I like what 8people is saying. The ability of custamizing generals to differents aspects, give your army buffs or something that links to how your general is. Might be hard to do, given how hard it is to balance the armies and then add another aspect to the game.
You're right she is absolutely posetively way too cheap for her skills, especially because what she does can be supported so frigging good by the rest of the army options (the lowering of LD and then breaking the army with spells, or fear and magicitems).
I still like paying against a list with or without her, i gotta say, it's quite a unique style of winning.
And teclis.. well i think thats just the main example to show what special characters are. Theyre part of the warhammer story, to make it look all fluffy, and what would they be if they werent as powerfull as the story tells? but when looking at their prices, i think the writer didnt actually intend to have those characters participate in the real tournaments.
8people's idea might not be all that far from doable really. I think it was the last Space marine codex (or the previous one?) that had a scheme to create your own Marine Chapter, with bonusses and disadvantages and all.. A system could be created if they want to (Hopefully at a higher cost then benefit to your army) After all, it's about creating your very own theme, not an even better powerlist.
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
Yep, and the last Trait System was quickly broken by every powergamer who could get his hands on it. Even if you just gave people the options of adding Wargear or other rules to their characters, that doesn't mean that they'd suddenly make "special characters". Take Vampires in 7th for example- there were two predominant builds, and they didn't follow the fluff at all (they mixed bloodlines quite often). Even Dark Elf assassins all come off with the same powerful build. No- official special characters are the way to go, because they can be nerfed as they're developed and leave no room for customization.
If find it funny that people are talking about "options to make characters" and then bashing Teclis.
You do realize that we can take a L4 who gets IFs on any doubles, just like Teclis, and a banner that gives us +D3PD? The only thing we're losing out on there are is T2, the extra 3 spells we can know, D3 dispel dice, and a few hundred points in our Lord section. More on Teclis later though...
As for the characters themselves, I think that as long as the option is present in the armylist section of the book (not back-of-the-book characters) then it's legal. Now, it's up to you if you want to play against someone who's using the character in question in a friendly game. If the guy running the Teclis + 80 Archers list is constantly being refused games, then he'll eventually stop playing Teclis or he'll leave the hobby altogether, which removes a "dirty powergamer" and that seems what most complainers want anyway.
Now, for Teclis, Thorek, and all of the other special characters that people are really really whining about. They exist- get used to it. Warhammer was never meant to be a tournament game. Because of this, as well as the fact that there are literally tens of thousands of ways to equip a single Hero, the game will never be balanced. I play in tournaments, and I play "fun" games. You can't complain if someone takes a Special Character, or Dwellers, or Purple Sun, or a Gunline, in a tournament game. They paid the entry fees just like you did, and they're just as entitled to winning. Likewise, you're just as entitled to spend the money to build that exact same army, with Special Characters, Dwellers, Purple Sun, or all those **** gunners.
You'd never show up to a Grand Prix event driving your grandma's hyundai would you? No. Then why would show up to a Tournament with a sub-optimal army?
The biggest complaint with special characters is that they win games. I find it hypocritical then, whenever people who 'play for fun' complain about them. You're playing for fun, I thought that meant that winning or losing didn't matter so much to you.
I love how 'playing a fun game of warhammer' means that you're only allowed to win by the smallest of margins- otherwise you're a cheesy powergamer who uses a Special Character as a crutch because he can't really play and deserves to have all of his toys broken.
...maybe you're just a whiny snot who blames their shortcomings on a mere variable. I'll switch armybooks with you and still win.
Imagine this ( easily abusable combo ) from the daemonbook: Great Icon of dispair ( enemy units within 12" suffer a -2 ld penalty ) + the masque's dance of dreaming ( the ld of an enemy unit within 12" is decreased by D3 ) and it runs through the game lowering the leadership of the target by 3 to 5, then charges a terrorcauser at it and watch it make a ld 4 or 5 or so test or flee away. Would you find it a fun game if most of your army is scared off the table?