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So the 8'th edition has been out now for...6 months or something. And me and my mates have played a few fantasy games and i was just wondereing where u guys think the game balances out?
In the previous edition, 2k was the balance point, or critical mass as we call it, where every army was on even playing field. It felt like under 2k, some armies where just better than others. And higher than 2k it didn't really matter, since it was when you ducked under that "critical mass" that some armies didn't stand a chance.
We figured that with the new horde rules and mass infantery themes running around, horde armies perform very well in lower point games, while the Elite armies suffer (Lizardmen, High Elves and WoC)
But when you reach 3k, it seemed to even out the playing field. Sure the horde armies get even more models, but now the elite armies reach their own critical mass of models.
an increase from 40-60 clanrats isn't that huge, just takes longer to kill.
An increase from 25 WoC to the 35 my friend took with him is significant.
I may be barking up the wrong tree but i just think that the game has become favorable to larger games. Im not saying that you cant play an elite army at two thousand points, but it gets slightly more balanced when you go up and over the three thousand mark.
Any remarks or should i have kept my yapper shut?
At my local store the standard WHFB army list is 3000 points for pretty much the reason you just described... and also because not as many people at the store play fantasy so the owner raises the points size for tournaments to 3000 so that he can sell more models.
It's pretty much as you described it: Elite armies are at a slight disadvantage under 3k points, but have a big advantage as soon as you cross 3k. I'm not sure that 3k is the critical mass, but it does seem to produce pretty fair fights here locally.
To be honest I haven't reallt noticed a difference. My local boys still play 2k games and havent really found the need to go larger, you can squeaze enoguh stuff into the list and it doesn't take as long to play. Although when the need arises we do crack on into the 3k range but we played 3k games all the time in 7th so it's not much of a biggy for us anyway.
Infact, as everyone is going horde, I'm finding Warriors an easier army to play. All those pesky horde armies with multiple units have kindly all dumped their units together into one nice big basket. Which I can assault with 2 units of Warriors and increase the blood letter faster. Seriously, 60 attacks from 2 units of 12 Warriors? Those hordes are also easier to out manauver and counter and screw over with Terrain!! Yay for Hordes!!!
Only 12 warriors in a group? I know its a lot of attacks but Horde armies wont just go willy nilly into those units. Empire, Skaven and OnG all have shooting that can severly cripple one of those units.
One thing that works is that when people run a 10wide formation, i just take my Saurus warriors and use them 5 wide with spears
I get the ranks on my side 50 Clanrats and vs my 25 Saurus and i still get a lot of attacks. He looses attacks from models who cant attack me and i wail on him like there is no tomorrow. The same works with a unit of 25 Warriors.
You got a good point that they put everything in one basket and everything...but that doesn't mean we Elite armies can run smaller units. The only reason i can see how you killed those horrrors is that they lost the combat by so much and lost a lot of models due to instability. Otherwise, a 50strong Clan Rat unit will hold you off for a while, nibbling away at you piece by piece and never running away due to stubborn.
This is why screens of Hounds, Mark of Nurgle and spells like mysifying miasma come into play There is alot of stuff in the Army book to protect it from shooting.
You don't need all the unit to get there. 6 Warriors (or 4) is enough to beat most horde units on combat res. They may not kill them but they'll pin them in place while other units move in to support. Having multiple units also gives your opponents multiple threats he has to deal with rather than one big unit he can concentrate his artillary and spells on (like Dwellers below)
My units of 12 Warriors have gone through Hordes of Orcs, Undead, Goblins and daemons. I'm not saying thats the way you should go about it, just saying thats how I go about it.
Not very well but then if 24 Warriors couldnt either then thats not really an argument for or against small units.
I'd rather take 2 units of 12. It's about maximising attacks. In a unit of 24 Warriors you're only really fighting with 6 Warriors at the front and 6 support attacks. Thats not really making much use of your 2 attacks a model. Where as 2 small units of 12 have twice as many attacks for the same amount of models. If you had fought them this way, say you were fighting one unit of 12 to the front and 12 warriors charged you on the flank (maybe even a turn later), how would you have fared then? Better or worse?
Obviously there are variables. You've got your flanks covered by blah blah blah. But do you see what I'm saying?