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Which warhammer FB army is able to be competitively shooty?
When I think of shooty I think of Empire gun lines with Stank. But Dwarfs can be pretty shooty too. And of course there are the repeating x-bows of the DE.
But why do you want to be shooty? if you want to shoot, go play 40k
'Its better to have a swordmaster and not need her help, then to need her help and not have her'
Byjugo's WIP Thread
I actually play 40k and have 2 very CC oriented armies (nids and blood angels,) and one elite army (dark angels: 27 models at 2000 points.) I figured I would try something different... In many ways.Originally Posted by Byjugo
Every single army in the game can shoot - except for Vampire Counts... Most armies can be designed with shooting in mind;
- Empire & Skaven can likely bring the most high-powered shooting to the table. lots of nastiness, but it's unreliable due to average BS and/or typical skaven workmanship! (their stuff can explode quite spectacularly!)
I'd peg skaven as better at shooting than empire as all their shooting is magical and has additional benifits, but it's more unreliable overall. (but it's destructiveness can't be argued with!)
Empire can bring lots of handguns, along with xbows, cheap cannons, the nasty mortar, rocket batteries, the volleygun and steamtanks.
- Dwarfs are similar to empire, but have much better Ld & resiliance. Their war machines are also among the game's most powerful due to their runes they can inscribe on them. (ie: all their war machines can be upgraded to flaming attacks making regeneration units near-useless, and they laugh at ethereal stuff!)
- High Elves & Dark Elves have one of the game's few multi-purpose units. Lothern Sea Guard get basic bows, but fight in vast numbers with elite core. Dark Elves get the more dangerous shooting with their repeater xbows, but don't fight as well with only sword & shield.
Both armies also have bolt throwers as a light war machine.
- Wood Elves are suppoessedly the 'best' archers in the game, but they've been left behind by 2 editions now! (they're one of 3 6th ed books in dire need of updating!)
- Lizardmen have the game's most annoying shooting units; skinks! They're not that though, but they skirmish so are highly manouverable in a game of bricks, and best of all, have multi-shot poisoned weapons meaning that nothing is ever 'safe' from them. The higher your toughness, the more pain these guys can cause.
Add to this warbeasts like the fire-spewing salamanders, exploding razordons & howdah weapons of the stegadons.
- Bretonnians are again limited to mostly bows, but they get flaming upgrades for very cheap, plus defensive stakes making them a bit tougher to handel on the charge. Their trebuchets are gross and cheap!
- Tomb Kings are the shooty undead! Can take a character to get a unit of poisoned shooting, plus have core bowmen, horse archers, the new stalkers, screaming skull catapults, S6 ushabti great bows, bone giants w/bolt thrower equivalent bow & the nasty casket of souls... (well, that one's a magical bound spell, but it can cause insane amounts of damage with good rolling!)
- Beastmen have ungor skirmishers with short bows - not the most effective by any means, but they're decent harassing units. They also have a monster who can throw boulders with the same effect as a stone thrower.
- Daemons have what's arguably the game's bst shooting unit with flamers of tzeentch. Plus, tzeentchian characters can get an upgrade to give them the same shooting attack as a flamer.
- Warriors of Chaos have throwing weapons on their fast cavalry, which can be quite usefull. But their true gem is that they have the game's single best war machine in the hellcannon.
It's a brutal stone thrower that will pulp pretty much anything it hits, has the magical attacks property (so can harm things like ethereal units), AND it fights like a monster in combat! (well, it is powered by a daemon!)
Oh, and it's misfire table is broken... Some chaos players like to play to the idea of using a pair of hellcannons as magical defense. (they could force every wizard on the table to pop...)
- Ogre Kingdoms have leadbeltchers, which aren't really worth their pts from what most ogre players tell me - mainly due to having to miss turns re-loading.
But they still have gnoblar trappers which are annoying at times, and the scrap launcher which is their version of stone thrower...
- Orc & Gobbos are a bit like elves in the sense that they have kinda poo-poo shooting from their units being only basic bow-shots, but they do have some wonderful war machines like cheap bolt throwers & rock lobbas, plus the halarity that is the doom diver!
IIRC, their new arachnarok monster can mount a missile weapon as well?
- Vampire Counts have... ... ... ... A banshee scream!!! no wait, 175pts minimum for 2D6+2 - Ld means shit in a game with units of 30-40+ models.
Poor, poor VC's... You're not ment to play 8th ed's game of viable & usefull shooting!
Anyways, I believe that covers the shooting potential of everyone?
Hope this helps,
Playing a gunline in Fantasy will earn you the ire of just about anyone you play against- especially coming from 40k. I'm not telling you that you can't or that you shouldn't, but gunlines can be extremely boring. There's an Empire player at our club who basically takes 1/3 of his turn. I move, I cast magic, he shoots, repeat. This cycle continues until either all of my models are dead, or I get into close quarters and mulch his entire army in a turn or so. I've gotten so annoyed with him that now I field a special character with Outflank to just roll up his gunline around turn 2, so I can pack up my stuff, tell him he's lost again, and go home.
Another problem for heavy-shooting in Fantasy is that we're supposed to be playing on very terrain-heavy tables these days. We should be placing D6+4 pieces of terrain onto the table, and most of it will block LoS. We also don't have cover saves, but we drop your "to hit" modifiers. This means that a regiment behind 'hard cover' or friendly troops will have you at a -2 to hit, before you even add in modifiers like range and movement. Needing to roll "7" to hit (6, followed by a 5 or 6) is better than having a 3+ cover save, trust me.
I still play an army where 90% of my models are carrying ranged weapons. An Empire 'mechanized' engineer's core, with regiments of 20 Handgunners, 2 Tanks, and several regiment of mounted riflemen and pistols. While most gunlines are sitting around shooting all game until they're wiped out in close combat, mine is more mobile than most CC armies, and plays like an Eldar jetbike army- lots of tactics, lots of room for critical error, and a unique challenge for everyone.
Thanks for all the info. I've been leaning toward empire myself as they seem to be able to do a bit of everything and I like the heraldry and such. I like armies with good shooting, but I do know they can get annoying and have some glaring weaknesses (imperial guard.)
I really like the thought of ogre kingdoms but reading the forums makes them seem kinda bland. They have three or four useful units? I like variety. And even though I play for fun I like to at least be competitive. Conceptually leadbelchers are amazing but I guess in game they're not that great.
I've considered Daemons because FB is not nearly as popular as 40k locally and if no one comes with a fantasy army I'll be able to play them anyway.
Daemons are a great army, because they're all on 25mm bases, or 20mm rounds. Thanks to the flop that is War of the Ring, GW has all of these great circular movement trays that work out to being exactly the same as 25mm square bases. So you can just rank up your Daemons army when you're not using them for 40k, and nobody from either system will complain. Except for the large characters, because they don't have a square-base conversion for that...
Lots of great information here. Just want to correct a couple of things. First off, hellcannons don't have magical attacks. And secondly, to roll a "7" requires a roll of 4+ on the second die.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.