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View Poll Results: Which is the best Guard?

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  • Tomb Guard

    3 15.00%
  • Grave Guard

    3 15.00%
  • Temple Guard

    2 10.00%
  • Eternal Guard

    0 0%
  • Phoenix Guard

    10 50.00%
  • Black Guard of Naggarond

    2 10.00%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    What's your Guard?

    Hi Guys

    GW has a lot of 'Guard' units in WHFB, Tomb Guard, Grave Guard, Black Guard of Naggarond, Temple Guard, Phoenix Guard and Eternal Guard to be precise. Each of them are warrior elite and all are an integral part of the armies they come from. So, I was wondering, which is the best? This is taking into account any game situation you would be in, for instance Black Guard could have a character in them and be buffed by a Cauldron of Blood whilst Tomb Guard could be buffed up by Righteous Smiting, Protection, Speed of Light, Cursed Blades, Aspect of the Dreadknight, Pha's Protection and Speed of Light (okay, maybe not that much but you get the picture).

    Personally, I think Black Guard, with the Banner of Murder, Sword of Swift Slaying under the influence of Okkam's Mindrazor and a Hydra Banner BSB in them they're not going anywhere fast. The only downside is that the unit size is limited to 20, but even with that they're more than capable of ripping apart any other unit they come across even if charged (especially if charged thanks to the Hydra Banner) and with the Tower Master speed-punching the other elves in the face with his sword I can engage swordmasters as well or get re-rolls against non ASF troops.

    I may be wrong, what do you have to say?

    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

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  3. #2
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    I don't think you can consider spells as part of this - they're not certain, and in any case most lores are available to a lot of armies.

    Phoenix Guard. 4++ save and ASF without upgrades for a very reasonable cost. Add in a banner worth up to 50 points and they'll survive almost everything thrown at them. With a BSB you can either be completely immune to spells, add d6 to combat resolution, or make their attacks flaming. And that's without giving the champion a magic item of his own.
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

  4. #3
    i am da Wahhchief Digger's Avatar
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    Black Orc.. umm Guard, yea blackorcguard 30 at least!
    Say were Seaguard left out on purpose?

    i think Tomb Guard and Black elf Guard are very valuable in their armylists, considering their alternative choices.
    Eternal Newbie

    Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs

  5. #4
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    Easily the Grave Guard, and here's why;
    a) It's the one and only unit IN AN ENTIRE GOD-DAMN ARMY!!! that can fend for itself with the right upgrades... VC's without them are either a complete joke & become the game's worst army, or else there's a bloodbus taking care of buisness!

    b) Great weapons, Banner of the Barrows & a Wight Lord BSB w/Drakenhof Banner = win! Add on the WS Hat from the nearby bunkered Vampire Lord and this unit typically hits on 2's & wounds on 2's, w/killing blow and magical attacks...

    c) Did I mention than they're the only decent infantry unit our of an entire army book?! Sure ghouls are ace as core, but they bounce off of anything with a 4+ or better save and/or T4.


    Seriously, every other army - even the Wood Elves can viably function without their 'guard' unit being present. VC's though are utterly denpendent on ours, because nothing else in our entire army can put out the kind of damage, and deal with all the other elites out there like the GG can...
    Even the highly touted Bloodbus can't compete, simply because it only becomes fully worthwhile at the 2500/2600+ point level. (you really need 8-10 knights + the command, and GG do the deathstar much more effectively for much cheaper!)

    When you think about it, there's a real reason that 99.9% of VC armies run Grave Guard!
    Cheers!

  6. #5
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    I hate Grave Guard........A fully loaded unit of GG, I have the hardest time stopping. You charge in Kill half after CR, then its the VC's turn and everything you just killed is back and you have no strength/charge bonuses. KB too, don't need GW's against reg knights. Just HW/Shield for a quick slice. Other armies might do much better against them and would choose a different Guard but GG are my bane from the VC list.

  7. #6
    LO Zealot rothgar13's Avatar
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    If the question is which is the best unit in a vacuum, it's the Phoenix Guard for me. 4+ ward, and I6 with ASF means you can't kill them, and they're on you faster than you can say "Elven halberd". If we're talking about which is the most important to their army, I'd side with experiment 626 and say Grave Guard - I think VC's will get their tail kicked without those guys.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realitycheque View Post
    I don't think you can consider spells as part of this - they're not certain, and in any case most lores are available to a lot of armies.
    Fair point, obviously bound spells such as Undying Legion and Barrows count, but otherwise discount spells.

    @Digger
    Well, I was thinking of including Blackorkguard and Bestigorguard as well as Greatswordsguard (possibly Reiksguard) and Chaoschosenguard but in essence, these 'guard' units are all meant to generally be bunkers for characters, whilst with Bestigors you can whack a beastlord in, the unit itself is designed as a standard capturing, heavy hitting and combat-winning unit, not a character bunker. Even though the Beastlord boosts Primal Fury, he does that for every unit he's and (and only against certain armies) so it's the Beastlord that's designed to be put in units.
    On the other hand, Temple Guard are Slaan bunkers, Phoenix Guard are meant to have Mages in them (I think, I don't play them) Grave and Tomb Guard...well, yes enough said.
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  9. #8
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    Easily the Grave Guard, and here's why;
    a) It's the one and only unit IN AN ENTIRE GOD-DAMN ARMY!!! that can fend for itself with the right upgrades... VC's without them are either a complete joke & become the game's worst army, or else there's a bloodbus taking care of buisness!
    The rest of the army being rubbish doesn't make the unit itself any better when compared to units from other armies
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

  10. #9
    Son of LO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacks985 View Post
    I hate Grave Guard........A fully loaded unit of GG, I have the hardest time stopping. You charge in Kill half after CR, then its the VC's turn and everything you just killed is back and you have no strength/charge bonuses. KB too, don't need GW's against reg knights. Just HW/Shield for a quick slice. Other armies might do much better against them and would choose a different Guard but GG are my bane from the VC list.
    Helpfull hint;
    - Don't EVER! charge undead infantry units in the first place!

    Seriously - their big advantage is getting back up, which we can only do in *our* magic phase... Just park your infantry anvils right in front of the offending unit and force the VC/TK player to charge you. Take it on the chin with a proper unit that can either weather the S6 killing blows, or else a unit that's large enough to simply keep steadfast!
    Then counter-charge with your hitty stuff and watch the undead go pop from unstable wounds... Oh, and always bring the eternal flame banner or other burny source with you.


    As for GG not being the best just because their abilities don't rank-upto say the better stats & rules of the PG? Sure on paper, PG are likely 'best', but this game isn't played in a vacume... High Elves don't actually *need* PG to win games. VC's is 99% mandetory to include GG because the rest of our book is so bad!
    For what they do for their army in question, Grave Guard take the honours, while PG are a very close second. (as they do add a serious level of otherwise non-exisitant resiliance to HE armies)

    Cheers!
    Last edited by experiment 626; July 12th, 2011 at 17:50.

  11. #10
    Martial of the Riddermark
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    I like the Magic resistance 3 offered to PG by Caradryan, making them almost immune to offensive magic. And he's not bad in a challenge either, as even if he dies he stands a chance of killing the offending model.
    Even without him, ASF, halberds and 4++ saves make for a good unit, and 'a serious level of resilience'.
    adamwelton "Bliss-giver is right as always."
    "Opportunities multiply as they are seized."

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