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Now I have been wondering this for some time, I would like to know which lord ( from any race) would win in a challenge against every or most other lords in the game. I imagine that its more of rock paper sisscors as opposed to one lord will out right win everytime. But who is statistically most likely to win?
This is the way I think of it. Although it's by no means perfect, or even right.
Bestest: If you're going to include Greater Demons then most likely one of those bad boys. Khorne would most probably win out of all of them but Slaanesh with his high WS, init10 and ASF can be a real nasty git against most other characters. Although my Chaos Lord has chopped up many a Blood Thirster........
Tier 2: Then you have Ogre Tyrants, Chaos Lords and Vampire Lords. All these guys have a seriously nasty as sin Stat line that makes other Lord choices look like hero choices. Tyrants are the most durable, Chaos and Vampires are equally fighty although Chaos has the Edge with WS against the Vampire and Tyrant. Chaos can also pack a 3+ Ward save which no other character in the game can.
Tier 3: Below those guys you have Dwarf Lords. You can whack some seriously nasty kit on these guys to make them neigh unkillable. They're horrid in challenges and while they may not be entirely killy they're a git to kill and can wear most other characters down with attrition.
Tier 4: I guess you have Humans I suppose. You can get fairly nasty Bretonnian humans with Heroic killing blow but stat wise they're down there at the bottom. Empire.........Eh, without the Speculum these guys aren't worth talking about.
Tier 5: Elves. Because all Elves are rubbish and I hate them.
Best Lords for a challenge.....
There have been a fair few theory-hammered in my local store, and these are the better ones.
-Archaon, Lord of the End Times. Just nasty, but he is a SP.
-Great Unclean One with Balesword. Nearly killed Archaon, will happily kill most other things.
-Bloodthirster with Obsidion Armour, Hatred and Killing Blow. Tends to screw over other combat lords then kills them.
-A Minotaur Lord with some crazy stuff I can't remember.
-High Elf Prince with Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defence and Great Weapon.
-Surprisingly, Crone Hellebron. If she goes first (and she's I9) she has 7-9 WS7 S10 attacks (more if you include a Cauldron/Hydra Banner), with her opponent losing an attack (Parrying Blade) with a possibly KB from the Cauldron or a 5+ ward (it's something).
And, probably the (if not, certainly one of) best challenge Lord.
Dark Elf Dreadlord with Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaeleth, Crown of Command and a weapon of choice (usually a Great Weapon). 1+ Armour, Pendant ward save and Ld10 Stubborn. Nearly every other challenge lords have at least S5 so more often than not he's laughing. Close second is the also "unkillable" Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers, who has 1+ Armour, 4+ ward, Immune to KB, HKB and Poison and treats all hits over S5 as S5, meaning at worst he has a 3+ Armour. Usually with a Great Weapon, extra attacks from the Shieldbearers and there may be enough points to give him a re-rollable Armour save.
Just on a side note, Dark Elf Assassins (although not Lord choices) can be some of the best challenge characters around.
Optimum challenge build:
Assassin - 2 Hand weapons, Touch of Death (K, Rune of Khaine (+D3 attacks), Black Lotus (re-rolls 1s to wound)
Thats 5-7 WS9 S4 attacks with KB and re-rolling misses and re-rolling 1s to wound. Also, can be hidden right up until the point where he is needed. Even Chaos Lords will fail enough 3+ ward saves to save them from KB....
Last edited by Ravenblade; September 26th, 2011 at 00:22.
If they're not immune to killing blow that is I sure as hell know mine is! And poison too so no nasty nasty poison stuff from you either Mr Dark Elf
I totally forgot about special characters.......... Hey hum.
I only included two SPs as they were theory-hammered in the usual "my General could take your General anyday" "Oh yeah? Bring it!" and then results in throwing dice perpetually until one dies.
Of course, if you factor in luck then the question who is the ultimate challenge Lord becomes somewhat redundant.
Archlector w/GW, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Speculum, Holy relic.
Don't challenge him, just don't do it!!! He might not be outright killy, but he's similar to the pendant dreadloard ideal that you just won't kill him in a challenge...
As for my favourite, might not be a lord choice, but:
His only real weakness is his 1 wound... But he actually picks which stats to swap out with who. So for example, say he's fighting Mr.Namby-pamby High elf Prince on his silly dragon, the Changeling can take the S/T/A of the dragon, and then WS/I of the prince! It's really funny to see him go up against those Dark Insanity 'Thirsters too!
If you're talking about SC's then there's endless debate on who's better. I personally like Grimgor. But if you base it on basic lord choices, I personally like the lord build Ive been running since 8th's release, Bretonnian Lord w/Heartwood Lance, V. Heroism, Gauntlet of Duel. He can be tricked out a little better but hes great for tournies and hasn't been killed but once. With the exception of his unit failing him.
I know there's better ones out there but this one has a chance to beat any of them and that makes him my choice.
OK, so this build probably isn't playable in any legitimate battle scenario, but how about:
Mark of Tzeentch (6+ ward or improves existing ward save by one)
Chaos Dragon Mount (Terror, Scaly Skin 3+, 2 breath weapons [S4, S2 -3 armour], 6 x S6 attacks, S6 Thunderstomp)
Enchanted: Helm of Many Eyes (Always Strikes First)
Weapon: Whip of Subversion (If it causes an unsaved wound the victim uses all of its attacks on models in its own unit as the chaos player sees fit i.e. directs them against himself)
Talisman: Talisman of Endurance (5+ Ward)
Armour: Bronze Armour of Zhrakk (Immune to Psychology, Killing Blow and Poisoned Attacks)
Gift: Stream of Corruption (S3 breath weapon, -1 armour save)
Gift: Acid Ichor (inflicts an automatic S4 hit on the opponent each time the chaos lord is wounded)
This lord is 2+/4++, very likely to be striking first against almost any other sensible combat lord (most likely re-rolling misses) and if he wounds then the enemy won't be striking him back. It puts out a staggering number of attacks / auto hits (including some at low strength which confounds the dark elf reverse ward save). The whip of subversion is defensive as much as it is offensive - effectively nullifying enemy attacks in a turn it causes a wound.
Downsides: Loses some effectiveness if not striking first, but most armies that can field an ASF lord that beats I7 don't have much else in their arsenal besides speed.
I'd have to say Chaos Lords will usually win this debate, hands down. Until you hit Greater Daemons, especially Thirsters, at which point the game just isn't fair anymore (toss Skulltaker on this pile too).
The thing is, you'll rarely see a Chaos Lord, just because we'd rather have a good caster nearby to fill in the parts of the game we can't rip face at. Give me 6 Warriors rolling attacks with whoever you want, and I'll tear your Lord apart. No joke.
High Elves do well if they take Lords, but they're like dueling pistols - you get one shot and if you blow it, you're screwed. Relying on ASF is what gets the Elves so far, to the point that I've given them the Potion of Speed against some foes. Normally is the HE BSB that you've got to worry about, he's the one with Armor of Caledor (2+) and a GreatWeapon. Their Lord choice is either Teclis or a L4 Mage, because they're relying on Shadows/Life to win the game.
Borak - you forgot to toss Minotaurs in with the Ogre Tyrant. Those cats (bulls? bison? anthropomorphic-dairy-cows?) are utterly brutal if they're kitted properly.
Another to watch out for is actually the Lizardmen Saurus Lord on the back of a Carnosaur. There are few things in the game that I would label "Dragon Killers", but the Carnosaur is a card-carrying bada$$, the Chuck Norris of Monstrous Mounts, if you will. The thing goes frenzied after just one kill, and the guy on the back can rock out a pretty serious armor save (-1 is the best I've seen from them, so a 1+ is no problem).