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Hi everyone, I know there are a bajillion of these posts here, and I did do some searching, but no one really had been looking for the "exact" combinations of things I was looking to find out.
This is a "help me I don't know what army to play" post. I play 40k, and am quite active in the 40k section of this forum, but was looking at starting up fantasy. Let me be honest in saying I'm going through final exams right now, and haven't had the chance to even read the whole fantasy rule book yet, so I might not understand some things. (ie. magic phase, dispell dice or w/e, movement ratings etc.)
In 40k I play Orks and Tau. Those are two pretty far extremes between heavy cc and shooting. I know in fantasy there are sort of 4 ways to look at it, speed, magic, cc, shooting. I don't know which I'll like best as I don't know how fantasy games play out, what I do know is this.
-Not Horde (too many boys painted already with over 300 models)
-Not the army everyone plays
-Not lizardmen (my friend who is trying to convince me to play has them or else they might have been where I went)
-Not monotonous play style (ie orks 90% cc, tau 100% shooting)
-Something that I can do LOTS of conversion work on. (I find building out of the box/kitbashing to be more rewarding)
The armies that caught my eye were:
Warriors of Chaos
Others that I would be persuaded to try are:
Orks & Gobs
Skaven (although I imagine, both skaven and orks/gobs are horde type)
Thanks for reading all of that.
Empire's getting an update next month, so hold up for a bit and take a look at their army book, see if you like them.
Vampires give you the best ability to kit bash. You can convert any regular unit to undead by mixing and matching and they have varying play styles to choose from.
-Not the army everyone plays
-Not monotonous play style
-Something that I can do LOTS of conversion work on.(I worry about this last one)Well, that already sounds fun, how about the number of models, what would I be looking at for a semi-competetive 1500pt list? (also is 1500 a reasonable list size? I don't know if 40k translates over to fantasy well)Vampires give you the best ability to kit bash. You can convert any regular unit to undead by mixing and matching and they have varying play styles to choose from.
Also with the new codex or book (not sure what you call them in fantasy), are they uber popular/everyone plays them at the moment?
Undead is one of the hordest armies out there i would not recommend them. Warriors is a very fun army to play. They are more of an elite army so they wont have as many models on the board as others. They are pretty much a close combat and magic army but I would not go as far to say their play style is monotonous. The reason being tehy are just soooooooo customizable with the marks and weapon choices I play chaos all the time and have always had a blast playing them.
This was the army I was leaning most towards for conversion purposes. I also like to hear that it isn't very high model count.Originally Posted by Strassa
Quick question does mono-god list making have advantages or is it like chaos daemons in 40k where you want a balanced list. I ask because I was thinking of doing heavily converted nurgle warriors.
Agreed, currently WoC are probably your best choice, however they are reasonably popular at the moment.
I would actually say Ogres may be your best bet here. Let's break it down piece by piece:
Not Horde - Beastmen, O&G, and Vampire Counts are terrible without Hordes, so they're out. Daemons and Skaven can function without Hordes, but they still like having lots of guys around. Some Tomb Kings lists can also be a bit Horde-y, though that depends on the style.
Not the army everyone plays - Everyone and their dog has a WoC army (it's the army most people start with, and it also has a bunch of grizzled vets playing it), and Dark Elves and Daemons were very strong last edition, so a lot of people still have them. They're gone.
Not a monotonous play style - Tomb Kings HAVE to bring a Hierophant and he HAS to take a certain Lore of magic, so that could get a bit stale.
That leaves the Ogres. Ogres have a low model count thanks to being Monstrous Infantry, are a relatively recent army so they don't have a massive following, and they have close combat, shooting, magic, and movement options. They're very fast on foot, love to charge, hit like a ton of bricks, and can take damage as well. All in all, a solid army, and I recommend it.
Last edited by rothgar13; March 28th, 2012 at 22:39.
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton
My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.
If you are seriously looking into Warriors, check out their section of the forum. We have a lot of very useful posts stickied in there. Start with http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1905533 (Warriors Quickstart Guide) - it's a bit long, but it covers every unit in the armybook, the basics of building a Warriors army, explanations of their magic phase, and a sample 2250pt army that you can build for just a hair over $250US. There's are also showcases of painted models, conversions that players have done, as well as a thread for people with start-up questions and another thread for experiences in playing them.
They are a very popular army here on LO (maybe not popular so much as just active) but in the world at large I'm not entirely sure how prevalent they are. They have always been popular and widely played, but no Fantasy army enjoys Space Marine levels of notoriety, and in my area, I am one of 2 WoC players that I know of.
The only downside to Warriors is that they are rumored to be the next book after Empire- and might be updated sometime late this year, early next year. Not a huge deal, as I doubt that much is going to change, and the Marks mean that you can usually update your army with little more than a new coat of paint (if you choose to paint them straight away at all).
As for the other armies on your list:
Beastmen can get a bit numerous, unless you start running a Minotaur-based army. Out of your initial 4 choices, I'd say that Daemons are the next best. Understand however that - opposite their role in 40k - Daemons are considered the epitomy of cheese in Fantasy. It is the only fantasy project that GW let Matt Ward touch (aside from the 8th ed rules, for which he was very well babysat), and his cheesy odor permeates the book. The book on whole isn't insane in 8th, but it was too far over the top back in 7th and it hasn't quite shaken that reputation yet. The upside to Daemons is that they're on 25mm bases, so you can actually use the LotR SBG movement trays to play Fantasy with the 40k round-bases, giving you a dual-purpose army in some ways (magnetize the large 40mm+ monsters to round/square bases as needed)
In your bottom choices, Dark Elves and Ogres stand out as being good options.
Dark Elves have some conversion options open to them between the DE and HE range, if you're interested, and they're a solid army with options for glass-cannon Combat, awesome Magic, tons of Mobility, and a solid shooting phase. The same is true of High Elves, however they have less of a shooting phase and even better combat phases. Currently DE/HE armies have a low model count, but not as low as Warriors (who can literally field a tournament-sized army with only about 50 models).
The Ogres are a bit tougher to convert considering their size. However, their size makes them a blast to paint since they are just one huge canvas. If you're into tattoos of any kind, the Ogres are the way to go - I know a gentleman who painted all of his Ogres to have huge oriental-inspired tattoos, and the effect is striking. They're also a very mobile army that hits like a ton of bricks in combat. If I had to pick the best "fast moving" army in Fantasy, it would have to be the Ogres. They have reasonable shooting phases also, but their magic is nothing to write home about. They also have a very very low model count, but it doesn't help your pocketbook at all because you're paying the same price for 6 Ogres that you'd pay for 12 Warriors or 20 Skeletons.
Hope this helps you out a bit. Personally, I say read the rulebook, cruise around GW, and try heading to your LGS to see what other people are playing and if anything catches your eye.
Wow! I'm impressed, the fantasy side of LO seems much more active than the 40k side. I made a few posts there that get less than 1 response a week here I've had several in a few days!
+rep to all of you.
If i could give DOUBLE rep to Captain Sarathai and rothgar13 I would. I appreciate that you actually put the armies I was looking at into the categories I was looking for. Makes it REALLY nice.
I did read the post you linked oddly enough today before you responded.
After I initially thought, maybe WoC was where I was going I figured I would peak into their forum section and there for me to behold was the thread you linked which seemed very fitting for what info I needed. However, like you mentioned I feel a lot of players are probably packing WoC armies, and that sort of makes them a little off putting. If I fall in love with fantasy, and decide to go for another army they may be army #2.
Daemons being a cheesy army is not what I'm interested in, I consider myself a very good general (I have a knack for strategic thinking) and if it is going to be a snorefest auto win army I don't feel like investing my time to be bored on the table top.
So oddly enough, I'm really liking the sound of Ogres. Not to mention I LOVE the large beasts they can bring to the table. (I <3 my squiggoth in my 40k army, I named him Fluffy and he would like some friends). As far as conversion work, I figure the larger size might make me have to do less kitbash, and more plasticard/greenstuff work, which is good as I need the practice.
Now I just have to finish my final exams, and save up a bit of cash and I may be joining this lovely side of the forum.
Thanks everyone for the help! My mind isn't set in stone so feel free to add more info/input as it never hurts to really weigh out all the options when considering making a 200-300$ investment.