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Hey, I'm wondering what's the best magic army. (Helping me decide my second army.)
(Sorry for having both Skellie armies together.)
O & G: 5/0/1
I think by far greenskin magic is the most destructive and powerful,but at a price. Magic heavy greenskins usually have horrible LD,usually 7 at the most. Also they lose their mages more than half the time they miscast! I think the list that can use magic to its full potential,be awsome in it,has an awsome lore,AND doesnt suffer from a low LD general,is probably chaos led by a daemon prince w/ makr of slannesh and lvl4. Or the cult of slannesh list,that is also an amazingly good magic army to play. If you dont like slannesh...well,its just they have probably the best lore in the game. Other options are skaven,which magic heavy are boring(casting warplighting....again)) and cheesy,HE's,whos lore is average but good,vampire counts,and orks & gobbos.
O&G without a doubt, you lose all charcter realated punch but the tradeoff is tremendous.
I think that TK are the best magic users.
They are made for it.
No miscast or minus things.
All your spells are known by every character.
Even your fighter character can cast spells!!
They also have the best spells.
-walk another round
-another round of shooting or combat
-a magic missile of S2 but of which are 3d6
-a healing spell which heales 2d6 skeletons,1d6 tomb guard, or 1d3 wounds on others.
SO I think TK's rule in magic.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Angel_of_Rust/Zephyro-Signature.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
O&G. They have that +1 power dice for every unit in close combat dealie and awesome lores
Can you imagine an O&G army vs. an O&G army? The amounts of power dice racked up for each player will be HUMONGOUS! And dispel dice, of course. So it'll end up as a draw in magic anyway
How can you sit there with straight faces and claim O&G really are the best "magic user race"? Any magicheavy Lizardmen or High Elf army could shut that magic down in a heartbeat and then proceed to pummel it until it cried.
High Elves, are definately the best "magic user race" due to its incredible magic items, lore selection, mage Honours, and special rules.
Now I know alot of you say "but O&G can dish out more damage per dice!" or something similiar, but keep in mind that the High Elves can and will shut that magic phase down if they would like to.
And of course some might claim that "Lizardmen have Slann who are MUCH better than the High Elf mages!". While this is true, the Slann do not have access to the High Elf magic items, which are undoubtedly the best items for the cheapest point cost in the game.
So, to recap: cheap and great magic items, lore selection, extremely good magic defense, powerful mages when equipped right and kitted properly.
Yes but the HE list is inherently defensive. 1/3 of the spells are useless unless your opponent is going magic heavy. They can diss out alot of dice but it costs an insane amount of points,your army will be heavily outnumbered and lets face it HE magic isnt going to break the back of an opponents army all on its own with only 1 basic 2d6 magic missle and flames of the pheonix.
O&G are good but not great. With their basic LD of a lvl4 wizard being 8,in an army already plagued by bad LD,your army literally HAS to rely on magic to win. And a single miscast can reduce your capacity to cause damage considerably by killing or disabling a mage. It is very destructive but in th end suffers from the randomness inherent in all orc stuff. You simply cant rely on it to win battles consistently unlike other magic races.
Personally i say you should play either daemonic slannesh or mortal tzeetch. Slannesh has the best lore in the game and with a daemon you can have a lvl4 mage AND good LD and fighting hero. Tzeetch is much the same,and the number of power dice you have makes up for the mediocre nature of the spells.
Originally posted by Abbadon@Dec 6 2004, 21:15
Yes but the HE list is inherently defensive. 1/3 of the spells are useless unless your opponent is going magic heavy. They can diss out alot of dice but it costs an insane amount of points,your army will be heavily outnumbered and lets face it HE magic isnt going to break the back of an opponents army all on its own with only 1 basic 2d6 magic missle and flames of the pheonix.[snapback]267170[/snapback]
The fact that its defensive matters not, really. He asked about the best "magic user army", and the answer is the High Elves.
About the HE magic isnt going to break the back of your opponent part...
I did. I broke 1 infantry regiment per round with Magic/Missile, while mopping with support units. Very doable if you have some clue how to manage your spell/PD ratio.
And sure "1 basic 2d6 magic missile" wont slay an entire unit. But how can you say anything negative about FotP? First off, at cast it will deal a little s3 hit to every model in the unit. Try that one on any infantry unit and things WILL die. Second of all, and this might just be the best part:
When his turn arrives and FotP is still in play, he must use powerdice to dispel flames of the phoenix, crippling his magic phase, and if he doesnt dispel it in his turn, he faces a s4 hit on every model in the unit.
Not to mention the fact that its not really out of the question to bring the pain with High Elven magic. Try Lore of Death, Lore of Life, etc. You can truly be devestating as a high elf magic player.
I never said the magic was THAT bad. But it IS defensive. And what if you dont roll the flames of the pheonix? Sure you can take seer. Also,its such a high casting cost lvl2 mages wont really be able to do it consistently. And when someone asks what is the best magic user army i think we can be confident he means which race can be the most powerful with magic. That would be skaven,orcs and goblins,and chaos. Skaven magic is boring,orc magic is too unreliable,leaving chaos. I mean lets face it you wont be doing as much damage with HE magic as you would with slanneshi or warplightning or gorks warpath or anything like that really...
Yeah, its not damaging at all taking out a unit of 12 CoK including a DE Lord and a DE BSB in the 1st round. Or removing a block of infantry in every turn.Originally posted by Abbadon@Dec 6 2004, 22:21
I never said the magic was THAT bad. But it IS defensive. And what if you dont roll the flames of the pheonix? Sure you can take seer. Also,its such a high casting cost lvl2 mages wont really be able to do it consistently. And when someone asks what is the best magic user army i think we can be confident he means which race can be the most powerful with magic. That would be skaven,orcs and goblins,and chaos. Skaven magic is boring,orc magic is too unreliable,leaving chaos. I mean lets face it you wont be doing as much damage with HE magic as you would with slanneshi or warplightning or gorks warpath or anything like that really...[snapback]267253[/snapback]
I dont think he means the race that can deal most damage with only magic over a game, im sure he means the most powerful magic race. Which isnt the same thing.
Look, lvl2 mages can easily cast FotP using 4 dice, and the ammount of power dice you can generate allows for this kind of beating.
Why not just dive right into the 9 lores the High Elves can pick from? I am quite sure you will find a host of spell combinations for you to damage quite alot with ^_^ .
Sure you wont do as much damage with Walk Between Worlds as a warlock with Warp Lighning, but then again, you can nullify the warp lightning and slay their entire clanrat unit with FotP aftwerwards.
I get how you might think that the high elves arent capable of dealing out as much damage as the others mentioned, but they actually are. Their ability to stop enemy magic, boost their own with cheap items, and surgically select their spells to suit their army, makes the high elves the top "magic user army" of warhammer.