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im looking to start fantasy after playing 40K for a couple of years. i want a pretty mobile force(but this is not a neccessity) and am looking to play at around 2000 pts. i do not have the rulebook yet but will have it as soon as it arrives again at my store. the armies that i was considering were:
orcs and goblins
i dont really know much about the magic side of te game but i do know that VC and lizardmen really focus on it. i play chaos in 40K so know about the chaos gods and daemons and such. as i sed, mobility is a factor, but not a deciding one. i want a pretty good mix between shooting and cc but tend to favor cc. i also dont really like painting standard flesh color. can anyone give me some tips on what army might be best for me and a little breakdown of each army? thanks a lot
Well... I'll try?
Skaven is a fast army (for infantry that is), cc oriented, got good magic, and have some nice shooting. Its a swarm army. I am currently making my own little skaven army.
Orcs&Goblins.. Well, gobbos are fun, and such. I really know jack ***** about O&G, so I think I'll keep my mouth shut .
High Elves.. Well, I have a link in my signature *points down to sig* where you can see what I think about them.
Lizardmen are great magic, good hth, but low on shooting, as far as I know.
Tomb Kings... Weeeell... I dont like undead armies, so I wont say anything about them. Same with Vampire Counts.
Chaos is as always the four gods and their standard stuff.
Dark Elves are fairly fast (fast infantry, not too fast cav except Dark Riders), have (IMO) standard/poor magic, but have low T (like all elves).
I'd reccomend Skaven, myself
I'll try as well,
The factors you listed:
CC and shooting, but mostly CC
Magic (you mentioned it, is in important?)
no too much flesh color.
So let's go through your choices:
O&G: O&G are an interesting army, because there are TONS of options to make your army from. Poor mobility, mainly due to the amount of things you'll be fielding. You wont have many ways to react to a faster army (Boar Boys are your best shot here). They have a good mixture of CC and shooting, but the shooting is more of an illusion then anything. You'll be lucky to hit the floor falling out of bed, to tell you the truth, but you can easily field enough troops to have enough shots to beat the odds. Sad, but true. O&G magic is terribly destructive, but can can also be threatening to your own troops. You can amass tremendous amounts of power die, but there are times you'll have almost none. So it's kind of hard to say. O&G are a tough army to use, I've seen, simply because they tend not to act like you'd expect. A lot of fun though. Oh yeah, and no flesh color, lol.
TK: Decent mobility with the incantations, but the incantations tend to be easily dispelled, leaving a very slow army. TK struggle a lot against Dwarves, from what i've seen, and sometimes have problems against Chaos. They're CC ability is mediocre, usually you'll lose a lot of skeletons, but still have enough to fall back on. Also, you have some good units to provide a hard hitting edge (field some chariots...). Shooting is alright, you always hit on 5s with bows, which can help. So you can make a great defensive army. TK magic isn't good, in my opinion. The incantations are easily dispelled, but usually you have enough of them to get some through. They dispel stuff fine, but if a remains in play spell gets on the board and you need to dispel it, you only have two dice to do so (try stopping the comet of cassandora with that...). Also, no flesh color.
VC: You can take a little more variety with VC then TK, due the the vampire bloodlines. Each bloodline tends to favor going against certain enemies, and Blood Dragon tends to be the favorite among most people. No shooting, except the banshee, which isn't too good against some armies. Also, CC tends to be on the low end, except for Vampires, which are amazing, and some other units like Grave Guard and Black Knights. Magic is potent, you can raise new units, and make your force very fast. Mobility is alright, they have some fast units, but a LOT of slow ones. Little flesh color (depending on how you paint your Vampires), but I wouldn't recommend this army for you anyway, based on what you've said.
Skaven: You can field TONS of troops, which will give you a LOT of cannon fodder. They have no mobility, really... nothing very fast, nothing manueverable. CC skills aren't very good, except for some units, such as plague monks. A good amount of variety in unit selection, but unfortunately, most Skaven armies look the same. Shooting is their big thing, some of the most destructive war machines in the game, but tend to be random, killing your guys as often as theirs. The plus to this? You have more guys to lose (a 50 man unit of slaves costs 100 points). A little flesh, maybe, on the face. Magic is a little oddly done, but VERY potent.
Chaos: CC only, for the most part. A lot of mobility, great magic (unless you're Khorne), and practically no shooting. you can take a huge variety of units though, which is very cool. Depending on your scheme, a lot of flesh color, or none. Chaos kind of has the same feel as 40K Chaos, so I won't go too deep into them.
Lizardmen: Kind of a slow army with little manueverability (some cavalry, but not too much). Magic is among the best in the game, as are their close combat skills. They are full of strong, tough to kill units. Shooting isn't very good, tend to be outshot every game. A good all around army, with no flesh color, and not a tremendous amount of choices in army feel.
Dark Elves: My main army, so I can tell you a few things about them. They are considered one of the most fast and mobile armies in the game, for good reason. They have decent close combat skills, with a unit of infantry designed almost specifically for different purposes (Executioners vs. Heavy armor, Witch Elves vs Horde Armies, Black Guard vs Cavalry armies, Corsairs vs shooty armies). Cavalry is pretty deadly, and fear causing in the case of Cold One Knights. Shooting is alright, probably among the best in the game, truthfully, but far outclassed by Wood Elves. Magic is kind of poor, but the Dark Magic spells are meant for tactical purposes, not destructive. Dark Elves are the tacticianers army, a good play can and will win with them, a beginner is expected to lose. But they do have the best looking models in the game overall. Flesh color isn't too big a problem, I've seen them painted a pale blue before, and it looked great, but it depends on your scheme.
Well, hope that helps you decide something. I'd personally choose Lizardmen, were i you, based on what you waant.
About Skaven:Not to mention alot of Attacks and Wounds in HTH.You can field TONS of troops, which will give you a LOT of cannon fodder.This is just bullshit. They are as fast/faster than elves, though they lack cavalry, their Gutter Runners, for instance, march 12". Also, for manouverability: Night-/Gutter Runners are fairly manouverable, no?They have no mobility, really... nothing very fast, nothing manueverable.Again, bullshit. Sure, the lone rat isnt very good in hth, but fair. As good as a normal human trooper. Also, they have high I and ok save (4+ in hth for Clanrats). And their Lords/Chieftains can rip you a new one in HTH any day.CC skills aren't very good, except for some units, such as plague monks.Well, thats not entirely true. Sure they blow up alot of their own, but not 50%. Also, when shooting into Close Combat, remember that if you kill 1 Knight and 11 Slaves, you still came out on top!Shooting is their big thing, some of the most destructive war machines in the game, but tend to be random, killing your guys as often as theirs.Agreed. VERY potent. Third best magic in the game, perhaps.Magic is a little oddly done, but VERY potent.
Okay, time to defend myself a little
By not manueverable, what I was trying to say is that overall the army is not terribly mobile. They have a lot of models on the board, which leaves little room in the way of mobility, compared to other models with fewer models. This makes it so a good player can actually leave a portion of the Skaven army out of the fight, and the Skaven player taking some time to bring them back in. They have skirmishers, true, and aren't too slow for not having cavalry. Overall though, mobility is better examined in other armies.
Skaven CC skills don't impress me, but Slai is right, they have average stats, and are not bad, so I am a little wrong here. I don't know. I don't think an army which runs away as often as you can make Skaven do it as a close combat force to be reckoned with, but thats just me.
And what I meant by random was a little poorly said (I was running out of time at the time, I wrote the response in between classes). Skaven shooting is formidable, the problem is that if something goes wrong, it can go VERY wrong, utterly decimating your own army at times (not always, but enough to make it funny). It's a little risky, but Skaven shooting is almost considered overpowered at time.
They dont run in the hands on someone who knows how to use them. But they may not really be a beginners army. Lizardmen though, may be more appropriate, and they are cool as well =) .
BTW, in hth, skaven rock cause of their Ld10, and sickening masses of attacks/wounds =D .
WOW! thanks guys. well, i just got my rulebook yesterday and have been reading up a bit(havent gotten to the magic section yet though <_< ) and now these are the armies that im considering. im starting to get a little better feel for the game and i can honostly say, by the looks of what i am reading, i think that i might even like it more than 40K(maybe). well, here is my new army choices:
orcs and goblins
beasts of chaos
hordes of chaos
HANGING IN THERE
i took out TK because of what you said really and i was looking at the models and they didnt look very fun to paint(did at first but not now).
i dot know about skaven and VC so much now. i was talking to a couple people and they both agreed that these armies were pretty overpowered. not a deciding factor but just something ive been thinking bout(reason i sold my necrons really )
i added beasts of chaos to my list of coices after reading a battle rep in one of my white dwarfs(284) and they looked REALLY cool to me. also made me rethink hordes of chaos.
well thanks again guys. i would really like some more info on the beasts of chaos and about what i was told about VC and skaven. THANKS
o ya and since u guys have been really helpful could you clear up a question i have on the rulebook also? with spears, what does fight in two ranks mean?
Fight in two ranks means that the front two ranks lend there attacks for Close combat. Also from your choices, I personally would go orcs n gobbos if you wanted a more hordish army, chaos if you want more of an elite force, beasts if you want a balance.
Well this is what I know on the Beasts :
These are tough, very and quite strong but their strengh lies in the ambush. This special rule allows you to keep certain units as reserves. They turn up on any table edge, just as long as you can pass a LD test. This will force your opponent to worry about where they will appear, and they could make a costly mistake.
Then there's the units, beastmen have some of the coolest around. This includes the Shaggoths, chaos trolls/orges/giants, minators and many others. Then you can make certain units specail bygiving them marks of the Gods eg mark of Khorne = Khorngors etc these are the elite of the beastmen. Then there's the characters tough and powerful, and if you have a Doombull as general minators are now core. The magic items are great, some allow you to get a better chance of your ambush arriving on time, another will make it so that beasts won't attack that character. Also you can use the beastman and hords of chaos togther. So in your beast army you could have chaos warriors or knights or even daemons. All in all a new and powerful army.
well, how effective is a horde army really? from what i am reading in the book, their low leadership will hurt themand in a, say, 40 strong squad of goblins, only 1 rank is even able to fight. this seems to say that the goblins will enevatably lose the combat, fail the break test with their horrid leadership value, and then get run down by the enemy or never regroup. am i missing something about this situation?