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Depends on the situation...
I wanted to find out what people think about the use of champions in units. I notice that the majority of people include champs in their mainstay CC units, but personally I have never been so keen on them, for the following reasons:
1) The price of a champion upgrade is usually similar to the price of a rank and file model (less so for cav/ogres etc). For units where everyone only has 1 attack, it may be worth it, but as soon as you have 2+ attacks per model, adding a single extra attack does not seem THAT exciting.
2) More importantly, I don't like the fact that they are eligible for challenges. Unless I'm mistaken, having no character or champion in your unit makes you completely immune to challenges, and forces a "normal" combat. If you have a real hard unit (eg chaos warriors/knights, chosen and/or of Khorne) which is likely to be better man-for-man than your opponent's unit, it seems like a real waste to not have your R and F dudes crush his R and F dudes.
Also, even the hardest unit champs are likely to be substantially inferior to any "real" characters, so getting them in a challenge just means free CR for your opponent! The only alternative is to have him run to the back like a scared girl, in which case his 10-20 points were a major waste.
Anyway, maybe I'd feel differently if I did not have a chaos army (ie, hard R and F dudes), but I'd be really interested to hear some other thoughts on the matter.
Cool, thanks for listening
The overkill CR gained by killing a champion is exaclty the same as if he were attacking rank and file. Only you'll have more numbers at the end. If it's a tight combat you might get the outnumber and win.Originally Posted by Jordan
As an orc player, I always take champs. The bl.orc champs gains + 1 str, +1 ws and one extra attack. For 15 points.
Thats amazing, since most races get one extra attack for 10 pts.
But even if champions seem worthless, they are still a nice addition to the armys look and is one of the things you can paint well to make the entire unit look better.
Converting own champions is my joy and also a nice break from the common soldiers.
Yea, similarly the champ for the beast herd has extra coolness (LD, S, A). Of course, you could always paint the champ model nicely as a centerpiece without actually upgrading him...
Yes....thats true. But there is a certain feeling over "Full command" and its always satisfying to say " One extra attack because of the champ". Or with bl. orcs:
" 3 attacks, WS 5 Str 5 with the champ....":shifty: Just had to say that...
Since the beast-champ has higher WS than the others, you will roll for him separately, and find that he will do very much for your side. If he has higher ws and three attacks( two handweapons?), he will probably hit twice and wound with one hit, at least, if he has higher Str.
+ 1 combat resoloution? Yes please.
For all units supposed to be in combat I always use champions. It's like buying a trooper, but you get him squeezed in into the first rank. :ninja: The cool-factor is also important IMO, as it's 'his' unit from then on. I try to always name my champions, characters and their units.
For weaker units, such as light cavalry, I usually don't buy champions. Their role is to simply negate rankbonus and don't really need that extra attack. I try not to take banners for them either as it easily get captured. For archers, I never take champions either - the extra BS is simply not worth it for one arrow/bolt. Except for the cool-factor then .. :rolleyes:
As mentioned, some armies (like orcs) gain more out of their champions than others, while others are quite useless (skellies, zombies .. can zombies upgrade? ) IMO.
As for challenges, it's never a bad thing to have a champion available. The CR resolution doesn't matter if he's killed and he can also be there to "save" your hero in some cases. It's never fun to step up against a chaos lord or vampire if you're an empire captain.
Champions always get to attack back unless attacks have been specifically allocated to them, this means that a saurus unit will always have 3 s4 attacks back at you, even if the enemy kills the entire front rank, give me that over another saurus anyday