Welcome to Librarium Online!
[FONT=Times][COLOR=blue]This is an army designed to be relentless in beating down the opponent. Although it may seem strange that a HE army operates w/o a mage, it works perfectly. Magic is a strong point of the High Elves, but not the strongest. We are fast and have great range weapons that don't require guessing to rule. And it was all made possible by a great elf named Eltharion. Without further adue, the army that has won oh so many games against almost every army I've played, only the damn dark elves giving me a problem once or twice because of the damn hate.
1. (Core) 30 Elven Archers (12 pt./model)= 360
2. (Core) 40 Elven Spearmen (11 pt./model)+Standard Bearer (12 pts) + Promotion to Champion (12 pts) = 464
3. 75 Swordmasters of Hoeth- 780
4. 4 Repeater Bolt Throwers- 400 pts.
5. Eltharion- (forgot...look him up. this is the new Eltharion in the 2004 Chronicles)
The Archers and the repeater bolt throwers demolish the opponents' ranks as they march towards you, the Repeater Bolt Throwers taking out the tougher units. Then, when they get to the battle line, they meet up with the SwordMasters, who are divided in 3 units of 25 (5x5 for excellent Combat Resolution), which make short work of almost anything (ws6 s3(5 because of great weapons) and Killing Blow). To support the swordmasters are 2 units of Spearmen (20 and 20) which are also pretty damn good (fight in 3 ranks). Eltharion should be with the middle regiment of Swordmasters.
There might be some mods to this army list if you go against a heavy magic/ missile army, but they are minor. All one must do is switch some Archers for White lions in case of a shooty army, or 2 lvl 2 mages w/ the items that give them an extra spell for their level and an extra power die. Well, that's it. I'd like some feedback hearing what people think about this army.
I have honestly never seen a list like this before in my life. If you look in the tactics forum i actually posted something similar to this as an idea,based on the removal of 0-1 for SM when using eltharion. This is a 145 model army. I honestly dont know how anyone would cope with that in 2000 pts. I know my empire leads in at around 100 models in the lists ive made so far. Heres the problem:
Swordmasters die easily. There are some races such as lizardmen or dwarves where the enemy shooters will be able to deal with your archers and still concentrate on your swordmasters. It will be very bulky,so much so that while your line will expend far wider than your enemy,smaller forces could simply break through one part of it before the rest of the line could react. A couple of cannons will destroy RBT's. But thats not the worst part. You say you can deal with magic. Against some armies where magic hurts the enemy rather than help their own troops,you could probably take it. But what happens when a VC general bringing in 10 powerdice is summoning up entire regiments of skeletons a turn? If each wizard casts summoning on a 7+,2 on 3's will have something like a 66% chance of success,and 2 on 2 dice will equal another success. Thats 4d6 skeletons being raised each turn. Not to mention once combat starts,skeletons being summoned up behind your lines in huge numbers. Or TK's,where a single casket of souls could wreak havoc on your entire line,and where they can outmanuever you with their incantations. This list seems completely devoted to crushing the enemy in H2H after ranged attacks wear them down. HE's simply dont have staying power though. Even with 145 models,if your elves dont break them on the charge your in deep sh*t. Against some armies,it will do well. Against others,such as full out shooting dwarves/empire,or magic heavy races,it will lose on a regular basis. Its hard for me to believe it crushes decent players regularly,although against less seasoned generals it will probably dominate.
The first comment i have is to amroth, you basicaly discribed all the ways that VC's could rip this army to shreds, but just because one army could beat it up is no reason to not use it.
i agree about other things though, like the addition of at least one wizard, a high elf mage with the annulian crystal is very good at shutting down most 2000 pt armies that arent to magic heavy (i.e. empire) if you do decide to get a mage i would suggest dropping a bolt thrower and a few 'masters. i apreciate that u are going for a magic free army, but a defensive mage is always welcome. I dont know a bout 4 RBT's, it seems kinda bordering on cheesey, ive never tried it my self but 4 might be pushing it. i have always wondered how an army like this would work, i love swordmasters and eltharion is a great character (he gets smacked by other lords though ) good luck!
Well, I recognized that there are a couple of flaws in this list, but it's only against armies who aren't based on Combat. This army is made to rip the opponent to shreds while he tries to get to your line, so it doesn't work too well against Dwarves and Empire, but it ends there. It has had great victories over every army, although the Dwarves and Empire gave me a little more problems. I modify the list according to a kind of "Feel" before every game, guessing if there are too many `masters or spearmen in this list to go against that particular army. I pull out what is a little overboard (even though 5x5 units are excellent for combat resolution, I pull them down to 5x4, which still works pretty well.) and add in what I need (i.e. against other Elves or Lizardmen I put in 2 heavily weighed down mages with all they can handle. It's pretty easy to trick them out to lvl 3 without paying the cost for the upgrade.). Thanks for the ripping apart of my list piece by piece though, it's made me think. Oh, and the 4 bolt throwers do tend to be cheesy, but if you want to win they help all the more. if not 4 `throwers pull 2 out and put in 2 Eagles. they work pretty well if you have to destroy war machines and such. Well, more feedback is appreciated.
If eltharion removes the 0-1 SM restriction split the huge unit into smaller ones. Also you might want to get some 10-size units of phoenix guard/whit lions/spearmen etc. for outmanouvering and flank charges.
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel allright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace, and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
Goblin kroozade of revengyness: win:19 draw:10 loss:9
Im sorry, I just have to pop in and say: do NOT take units of 10 spearmen. Ever. It is pointless and very silly indeed.
I hardly consider 4 bolt throwers cheesy. Your spending 400 points on 4 models in an army that already has problems with being outnumbered. Other than them,HE have no armour peircing weaponry,except maybe white lions. Finnaly,i see/play with empire and dwarfs who take 4 artillery peices to a game without getting much attention. My other question besides how you deal with magic is,what do you do against cavalry armies? 4 RBT's wont stop them alone,and longbows sure wont. Other problems would be wood elves,who could just shoot you to death and use flyers to take down the repeaters,and brettonians,who get a 5+ ward save from the RBT shots. Against things like H2H oriented DE's,maybe chaos,other HE's and O&G's,it will do great. But out of 15 armies,those are only 4. Against shooty empire,shooty dwarves,magic heavy VC,brettonians,and WE's it wont do so as well as a more conventional HE force. As for tailoring your army to your opponent,well,if i built my armies based on what i was going up against i would probably win alot too. A truly good army does well against most opponents without having to change.
the RBT's have won me many games against brit and other cauv. heavy armies. They slam into knights and cut through them like nothing, their strong points being that they lower the saves (-2 to all armor saves) and 6 shots each. I've taken out a unit of 10 Chaos Knights (Tricked out to the max) in 2 turns with just rbt's shooting at them. I think that they are nto a waste of points at all, 'cause they really help with taking down those heavily armored units. Longbows also help, but they're more for taking down foot units who aren't too heavily armored. This army was based upon a principal of makin` a hard-hitting elf army. It's more a statement than anything else. Elves are not pansies goddamnit,and they can take out the toughest of opponents hand to hand.
Referring to the White Lions remark, they are very useful indeed, but only against armies that use arrows and the likes. They get a 2+ armor save against projectiles, so that's the only reason I would use them to get close, accompanied by the `masters. Referring to the Phoenix Guard, they are the crappiest overpriced unit in the army.
And what's wrong w/ modding the army before every game? This list it just supposed to be an outline, a blueprint of how the army's supposed to function. Oh, and I got a great way to trick out my mages so that they can stop all the spells sent to them from tthe opponent's mages and still fire pretty hard-hitting spells `gainst him. Well, any other feedback. THROW ME A FRIGGIN BONE HERE. ~Max.
White lions don't get a 2+ save, they get a 4+ Save against shooting. I think 4 RBT is a bit excessive, I would drop 2 and get some eagles.
An army that wins all the time against almost anything without a change is generally Cheesy. You know having RBT cut through a bretonnian army does not make you a good player, using eagles to slow them down having cavalry charge the flanks while a large unit of spearmen receive the charge if necessary. Thats what will win. Tactics not the army. Also a Saphery army which this must be based on with so many SM would rarely make use of so many bolt throwers, it is mainly the seaguard and citizen militia. Trying to justify it by fluff saying the SM were helping citizens would not work.
I also cant imagine a host of the white tower without a banner of sorcery. As for the list being cheesy,i really dont think it is. 4 RBT's cost alot of points. I wouldnt call an empire player with 4 cannons cheesy,because he used up all of his special slots and 1/5 of his army on them. If such brute force gives someone trouble,they probably could improve their playing. I do however not like the idea of a special character in every game,with an army based around him. However its not like eltharion is some kind of god like tyrion or teclis,so its acceptable.
While i still think this army will struggle against certain armies more often than not,it seems ok,and there are other opponents who would be crushed by it(imagine inspiring fear to those goblin hosts!. I do have to say though,take a mage in all games. Equip him with 2 dispell scrolls and crystal wand,or annulian crystal and wand. This will allow for good defense,and even more so because you will always know drain magic and have a 50/50 chance of getting fortune is fickle. Also,imagine what curse of arrow attraction would do in that army,with all those RBT's i think it would be the death of any unit.