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  1. #1
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    2k Tzeentch Chariots

    I was inspired by the chariot thread so I thought I'd write a list with a lot of chariots. I don't actually have any chaos models, though I think I'm going to go out and get a chariot soon b/c they are so awesome looking.

    Here's an example of some chariot mayhem. A more balanced version of this list would probably call for 4 chariots, but wher is the fun in that.

    1996 pts

    Power Dice: 15
    Dispel Dice: 5

    Exalted Champion
    MoT
    Barded Chaos Steed
    Spell Familiar, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield

    Exalted Sorcerer
    level 4
    Barded Steed
    Dispel Scroll x2


    Chaos Warriors
    18 M, SB, C, WarBanner, Shields, MoT

    Marauders
    23 M, SB, LA, Shields

    6x Chaos Chariot
    MoT

    Warhounds
    5
    5


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  3. #2
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    A Tzeench list with two casters. Interesting. You may as well take 4 if you are doing Tzeench.
    The warrior unit is expensive, and not the best setup for them. Loose the Standard and warbanner, and run the unit with 11 warriors and the Exalted in, and 2xHW aswell, they need Cres from kills, not static. If you take a few more exalted casters, drop the marauders and use this setup with the other heroes too.
    Put the Level 4 on a dragon and then you are sorted the chariots should deal well with what your magic cant.

  4. #3
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    A Tzeench list with two casters. Interesting. You may as well take 4 if you are doing Tzeench.
    The beauty of tzeentch magic compared to other armies is that you can have less characters and more units. All of the power dice are in the units. This does mean that if a character is taken out then your magic will be greatly hampered, but then that is no different than other lists. As it stands I think 15 power dice are more than enough.

    Loose the Standard and warbanner, and run the unit with 11 warriors and the Exalted in, and 2xHW aswell, they need Cres from kills, not static.
    5 or 6 extra attacks will not provide 2 extra kills against most standard infantry units. If going this way it would be much better to spend an extra 30 points and go with chosen instead. Then you wouldn't lose CR to having your own warriors killed in return. The problem with such a small unit is that it provides little protection for the characters. It would be no good to have your characters fleeing or wiped out on the first turn.

    If you take a few more exalted casters, drop the marauders and use this setup with the other heroes too.
    At 2k points you can only have 1 exalted sorcerer. As far as normal ones go, I would have to drop chariots for them. Gaining +1 power die and losing the chariot simply isn't worth it.

    Put the Level 4 on a dragon and then you are sorted
    He cannot choose a dragon. I would have to spend almost 500 more points to fit a dragon into this list. Certainly not worth it at 2k and it carries a lot of risk.


    One last thing, can characters join marauders?

    undivided vs unmarked? I'm not clear on it, it would definately change the nature of the list.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Captain Snowball's Avatar
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    One last thing, can characters join marauders?
    Characters can join marauders. However, i am not sure whether they have to remain undivided to do so.

    Anyways....

    Exalted Champion
    MoT
    Barded Chaos Steed
    Spell Familiar, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield
    You should make this guy into the stereotypical tzeentch champion.

    Put him on a disc with enchanted shield and golden eye of tzeentch. Much better protected than sitting by himself on a steed.

    Give him a halberd and his combat ability is fine as well.

    Exalted Sorcerer
    level 4
    Barded Steed
    Dispel Scroll x2
    Make this into two aspiring champions of tzeentch. Stick them into the warriors and marauders respectively. Much more fun.

    Give one a spell familiar as well.

    And/or, put them in chariots.

    Chaos Warriors
    18 M, SB, C, WarBanner, Shields, MoT
    I actually like this setup.

    My chaos warriors usually aim to be unkillable, i.e. shields option. Deciever is right that the extra attacks from two hand weapons will not compensate for the loss of static combat resolution. In losing their shields they lose 2 from their armour save in close combat.

    If your not going to put a character in this unit then drop the champion.

    Marauders
    23 M, SB, LA, Shields
    Good.

    6x Chaos Chariot
    MoT

    Warhounds
    5
    5
    Much fun!!

    This however emphasises my advice for your characters. With so many points invested in the generation of power dice you really need to keep the people using them safe.

    Also, with more spellcasters, one dying is not such a cause for alarm as it was before.

    Looks like a really fun list to play with,

    Hope you have fun with it,

    Regards
    Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares, your a mile away and you have his shoes!!

    Chuck Norris invented water

  6. #5
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Fair point about the Warriors. As for the more casters thing, I can see where youre going, but the point of having more is that you have a greater ability to get spells where they will be needed most, and also you will be able to cast mltiples of the same spell. Most other Armies are able to get the equivalent of this casting power. Tzeench is just an expensive way of dominating magic, and if you dont you may aswell go with another mark and use more of their cheaper casters. Unless its the Loe you particulalry want.

    Also as marauders cant be marked, its fine for them to be joined by a character with any mark (afaik).

  7. #6
    Member Hollow_Man's Avatar
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    some suggestions about making the army more playable...
    since i usually play against armies who tend to have MANY high strength projectiles, i've seen all the cons of fielding chariots and warriors: they simply die too easily for their cost.
    about the chariots, why don't you drop them (slow, fragile and not trustworthy because of the d6) and take trolls instead? they're awesome at crushing the enemy, and they regenerate. They're a wonderful hard-hitting unit, provided you keep the general in the surroundings
    about the warriors, i never fielded tzeentch marked warriors, because this mark is the least cost-effective. you could go undivided and get a psych reroll, whereas fleeing tzeentch warriors generate no power dice... i mean 8 is not 10
    and btw i think the combat capability of mere chaos warriors is not worth their cost: to maximize their efficiency i would take 12 chosen warriors in a 6 wide frontage, equipped with shields against enemy fire and halberds for cc, and full command.
    i also recommend a BSB, because losing a 300+ points unit for a bad roll is really possible and catastrophic.
    by the way, if you want, you could make a fighting unit out of the marauders, giving them armours, shields, (maybe flails? i never tried...) and full command, protecting them with a bsb who takes the blasted standard...i know this is a huge point cost for marauders, but this could prove to be more cost-effective than a unit of chaos warriors!
    finally, if you want to be magic-oriented, drop the sorcerer and take a tzeentch lord with the staff of change, your enemy will have a bad day trying to dispel nearly ALL of your spells, because you will succeed at casting...and the lord is surely cc competent!

    hope this helps, cheers!
    :happy:

  8. #7
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    Put him on a disc with enchanted shield and golden eye of tzeentch. Much better protected than sitting by himself on a steed.

    Give him a halberd and his combat ability is fine as well.
    Well he'd be with the chaos warriors. Your suggestion is an extra 100 or so points.

    Make this into two aspiring champions of tzeentch. Stick them into the warriors and marauders respectively. Much more fun.
    The problem with that would be hoping to roll a 3 or 4 on the tzeentch spell lore. Otherwise my magic for the whole game would be awful.

    Give one a spell familiar as well.
    Exalted champion already has it.

    Deciever is right that the extra attacks from two hand weapons will not compensate for the loss of static combat resolution. In losing their shields they lose 2 from their armour save in close combat.

    If your not going to put a character in this unit then drop the champion.
    Actually he wanted me to take the extra hw. If Tzeentch marked characters can join marauders it would probably be better to just have marauders.

    This however emphasises my advice for your characters. With so many points invested in the generation of power dice you really need to keep the people using them safe.
    That was the idea behind sticking them in big units.

    Most other Armies are able to get the equivalent of this casting power. Tzeench is just an expensive way of dominating magic, and if you dont you may aswell go with another mark and use more of their cheaper casters. Unless its the Loe you particulalry want.
    You don't think 15 power dice would be dominating the magic phase? I see Tzeentch as a way to be very magic heavy and still have combat potential.

    i never fielded tzeentch marked warriors, because this mark is the least cost-effective. you could go undivided and get a psych reroll, whereas fleeing tzeentch warriors generate no power dice...
    The idea was to have a safe place for the general to go. If he can go with marauders then that would be better.

    who takes the blasted standard..
    The blasted standard is almost worthless since the magic phase comes before shooting and close combat. It can only help them on your turn of a CC phase.

    finally, if you want to be magic-oriented, drop the sorcerer and take a tzeentch lord with the staff of change, your enemy will have a bad day trying to dispel nearly ALL of your spells, because you will succeed at casting...and the lord is surely cc competent!
    This would be at least an extra 200 points. What would I drop?


    Thanks for all the comments! I've never liked the chaos warriors I was just trying to find a safe place for the general.

    I've found most of the other suggestions involve adding 200-500 more points worth of characters into the list. What would I drop then?

    With an exalted champion/sorcerer lord I've spent very little on characters for a Tzeentch list. With 7 spells its enough to cast everything since I only need 5.

    Changing the chaos warriors into marauders would give more points, though I would think it would be more important to have flankers or war machine hunters with those points.

    I find the problem with most Tzeentch lists is that they aren't well rounded. 1000 pts in characters and then a couple units, well that is most chaos lists anyway.

  9. #8
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Thats what Tzeench is for lol. Their lore is what stacks up their kills, so you dont need just to dominate magic, but absolubtely overpower it. Other tzeench units are just there for extra dice, support, and because you have to take them. If you want good magic, but an army which which does most of its damage in combat, then use khorne troops with Undivided casters using fire, or one of the other lores available.

    Back to this list, possibly get some deamons in there. The warriors and marauders are good units to have, but there is only one of each, they will be easily overwhelmed. Keep the hounds as they are great, but possibly drop the marauders and/or some chariots for other units.

  10. #9
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    Their lore is what stacks up their kills, so you dont need just to dominate magic, but absolubtely overpower it
    I suppose I just don't understand how this could be considered low magic.

    Not even a 2nd gen. Slann army can generate 15 power dice. The only army that could generate more would be another tzeentch one. I wouldn't underestimate the fire lore either. It is much more reliable than the tzeentch lore.

    If you want good magic, but an army which which does most of its damage in combat, then use khorne troops with Undivided casters using fire, or one of the other lores available.
    That would be considerably low magic.

    Truth is, Tzeentch is all about combat and magic. Tzeentch heroes/lords are extremely overpriced casters. They make up for this by having combat ability.

    Tzeentch can add to its magical might by adding combat units, which again compliments the idea of might and magic.

    If you want a purely magical army you should not be playing Tzeentch b/c you're going to get both whether you like it or not.

    Maybe I'm just not understanding chaos.

    Here are 2 new lists, one taking into account that I don't need chaos warriors, and the other using your suggestions.

    1998 pts

    Power Dice: 15
    Dispel Dice: 5

    Exalted Champion 203 pts
    MoT
    Barded Chaos Steed
    Flail
    Spell Familiar

    Exalted Sorcerer 344 pts
    level 4
    Barded Steed
    Dispel Scroll x2


    547 pts

    Marauders
    23 M, SB, C, LA, Shields 186 pts
    23 M, SB, C, LA, Shields 186 pts

    7x Chaos Chariot 980pts
    MoT

    1352 pts

    Screamers
    3



    1998 pts

    Power Dice: 16
    Dispel Dice: 6

    Lord of Chaos 493 pts
    MoT
    Disc
    Flail
    Golden Eye of Tzeentch
    Staff of Change

    Sorcerer 161 pts
    level 2
    Barded Steed
    Dispel Scroll

    Aspiring Champion 183 pts
    MoT
    Barded Steed
    Flail
    Spell Familiar

    840 pts

    Marauders
    21 M, SB, LA, Shields 162 pts

    6x Chaos Chariot 840pts
    MoT

    Warhounds
    5
    5

    1062 pts

    Screamers
    3

  11. #10
    Senior Member Captain Snowball's Avatar
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    Of the new lists i like the first one the best.

    Exalted Sorcerer 344 pts
    level 4
    Barded Steed
    Dispel Scroll x2
    I would still turn this into 2 aspiring champions of tzeentch. Put one on a barded steed in the second marauders unit and put one in a chariot.

    Then the chariots could make a spearhead formation with the aspiring champion at the front. If nothing else it would look cool! 8X

    However, i realise that you want to utilise the lore of fire, so keeping the exalted sorcerer for that reason is cool.

    Truth is, Tzeentch is all about combat and magic. Tzeentch heroes/lords are extremely overpriced casters. They make up for this by having combat ability.
    This is true.

    For this reason, when i play tzeentch i generall keep my marked characters at hero level. Otherwise they become hugely expensive.

    The key to tzeentch is to have a massive amount of spellcasting ability but NOT at the expense of combat efficiency.

    For this reason i think that the two large units of marauders and the absolute multitude of chariots is a good idea, because all these choices perform well in combat.

    If you want a purely magical army you should not be playing Tzeentch b/c you're going to get both whether you like it or not.
    This is also true.

    If you want purely magical then play another army where the mages don't cost 3 times as much as your core units.

    Well he'd be with the chaos warriors. Your suggestion is an extra 100 or so points.
    Thats cool. Its just that most people don't consider putting mounted characters in infantry units. Just wanted to put it out there.

    The problem with that would be hoping to roll a 3 or 4 on the tzeentch spell lore. Otherwise my magic for the whole game would be awful.
    Not really.

    There would be at least 3 red fires shooting around every turn.

    And unless you roll yellow fire, ALL the tzeentch spells have some merit for damaging an opponent. Tzeentch magic is never awful.....well, not completely.

    Regards
    Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares, your a mile away and you have his shoes!!

    Chuck Norris invented water

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