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Ok, from my previous post and the few butt kickings ive given to a friends wood elves i think i've finally settled on a list (give me your input if you think i should change something.) My problem is that I cannot for the life of me beat my friends dwarfs with their cannons.
Exhalted champion - MoK, sword of rending, enchanted shield, steed - 201pts
with this setup, he has done incredibly for me, both games ive played wood elves he would cleave right through the the big treemen thing. Before he only had a sword of might (when i played dwarfs) and he just wasnt getting enough attacks after loosing CC and hence loosing frenzy.
(10) chosen knights - MoK, chaos armor, standard, musician - 525pts
I know, i know, EXPENSIVE, but i gotta tell you, they are my star players, my friend wanted nothing to do with them and would keep away from them as much as possible because (like well said in Rocky IV by Ivans tranier) everything i touched, i destroyed. he couldnt get by their save and toughness. i decided to run them in 10 instead of 5 because now i get alot of attacks and have better Combat res. When i faced the dwarf player i ran 2 units of 5 and well..... didnt work. they lost their frenzy quick, and ran alot.
(15) chosen warriors - MoK, chaos armor, standard, musician - 387pts
They are a bit expensive of a unit, but they are solid, they also have not done me wrong yet in this configuration. I tried running a brick or 12 like everyone says, but against that dwarf player i was still losing combat, loosing my frenzy and running.
(10) warhounds - im still up in the air on them, they are basically meat shields, but i wish they could do alittle more, but for the price they draw fire away from my champion from elven archers long enough for my champion to get into CC. hmmm...
(5) fleshhounds of khorne - now maybe ive just been getting lucky die rolls, but seems no matter how many shots those elves put into them, i still manage to run all the archers off the table, and he last night even turned around, took three arrows, waved them off and took out his HQ unit. beautiful! even against the dwafs the 2 dogs i had left after alot of shooting at them ran 2 war machines off the board.
again, if you have any suggestions, id like to hear them, but this setup feels pretty good to me, though im still werey about the hounds.....
ok, the dwarf player runs a ridiculous list, and no matter what i do, i just cant seem to beat the army, his guessing on his cannons, and the tough as nails units (cheese imo, great ranged and close range) he runs:
2 bricks of 15 clansmen
brick of 15 longbeards
brick of 15 iron breakers
like i said, hes surgically accurate with guessing on his cannons and i just cant seem to get there with enough strength to deal with that armor! any suggestions? oh yeah, and did i mention he is the kind of guy that will say "well, i need three 6's" blow on them and roll three 6's on a well above average occasion.
Last edited by Emeraldguardx; October 30th, 2007 at 17:19.
Biel Tan Eldar 3-0-8
Vanilla Marines 17-1-2
Alaitoc Eldar 15-2-4
Goff Orks 21-1-2
Nurgle Chaos work in progress
I think that 2x5 knights are far better than 1x10. You just field them next to eachother, when you fear that one won't be enough, though in my case the knights have never failed me in close combat.
Warriors aren't meant for charging dwarfs to the front zone (but most of the times the dwarf's static combat res. won't be enough to counter the res. I get from kills, you just have to watch out for thanes and other heroes in units and if they are in there, then just look for a way to make a combined charge) and if they get a flank charge, every unit would be crushed. I'd add halberds to them and take of chosen: IMO chosen isn't worth the points and with halberds the dwarf's armour won't be of much use.
You have no flyers to destroy his warmachines, I'd add furies.
The rending sword won't be doing much IMO, I'd field the berserker sword, as these extra attacks against dwarfs would come more handy.
I think you wouldn't need so many warhounds.
I'd field the list like this:
Exalted Chaos Champion @ 193 Pts
Mark of Khorne; Frenzy; General; Chaos Armour; Shield; Berserker Sword; Chaos Steed
2x5 Chaos Knights of Khorne @ 2x260 Pts
Mark of Khorne; Frenzy; Barding; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command
15 Chaos Warriors of Khorne @ 330 Pts
Mark of Khorne; Frenzy; Halberd; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command
6 Chaos Warhounds @ 36 Pts
5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne @ 80 Pts
6 Chaos Furies @ 90 Pts
i basically agree to both of you, half and half
the champion is quite ok, but i would question the usefulness of a rending sword in a 1250 game (monsters or multiple wound units are rarely seen imo, and a character's attacks are best spent against rank and file, since once again in a 1250 you won't see many big nasty costy characters).
the same thing goes for the berserker sword: being mounted on a steed it only gains you 2 attacks...i'd rather go for the flail+shield combo which is cheap and machine crushing. and then spend the points for a collar maybe, or keep them for something else (like a banner of rage on the warriors). hey if you really want to get those extra attacks then field a juggernaut, gaining +3att!
i absolutely concur on the 5x2 knights...i'd even field 6x2, having the points.
but in a 1250 chosen are not much point-wise. so normal knights.
the warriors are ok, but i still suggest the 6x2 block, with halberd and shield, full command -and the banner of rage, since you have no BsB- once again i suggest simple warriors, but for infantry the chosen are far better than the normal warriors so they may remain chosen if the points allow it
(btw, i see no way how 6x2 chosen warriors of khorne with halberds and shields and full command may lose a combat in which they are not flanked. IF that happens then the banner could save you.)
the hounds may be useful, but i'd field 7x2 (panic@2 casualties)
some flyers may be of some use, but facing dwarfs (crewmen @ T4 and heavy armor) furies become utter rubbish imo (poor furies)
the flesh hounds just scare me...can you manage them? a frenzied fast cavalry? whoa! ;?
i'd suggest -if you want to spend less points on cavalry- to field only one unit of knights and then one unit of marauder horsemen with an uber character. so you lose cheap (cheap??? not really, but cheaper than chaos knights) troops while getting close, then rely on the hero's attacks and maybe get a flank since you're fast cavalry.
in this setup i'd run a unit of 10 marho w/ flail and full command, and put inside an exalted champion of khorne mounted on a daemonic steed (not juggernaut for his inferior movement: 7 vs with berserker sword and enchanted shield.
and finally i suggest to field units with thin ranks: that way cannonballs become almost useless (killing 1 knight or 2 warriors per shot)
try to minimize the impact of warmachines on your army. you could choose to have few good models and hope to keep them alive (eg less ranks) or just field marauders and 3 heroes who do the work, plus some daemons (aura) or trolls (regeneration)
bloody beards for the (beardy?) blood god!
It's better, it's shiny, it's warped...it's Chaos.
Definately split the chaos knights, in one unit as they are, although they are less vulnerable to breaking from shooting you make it (from a dwarf players perspective) very easy to focus firepower onto the knights.
aut viam inveniam aut faciam / I'll either find a way or make one.