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I'm thinking of getting a WoC army as my second FB army (Ogres is my first), and I've just been flipping through the book, and seeing what looks good. Any criticism is well deserved as I've never played with them before.LordsChaos LordMark of KhorneJuggernaught of KhorneEnchanted ShieldArmour of DamnationSword of MightTalisman of ProtectionFavour of the GodsSporific Musk
HeroesExalted HeroMark of NurgleShieldBattle StandardBarded SteedBanner of WrathTotal: 221ptsChaos SorcererLevel 2Mark of TzeentchDispel Scroll x2Total: 190ptsChaos SorcererLevel 2Mark of NurgleTotal: 140pts
Core12 Warriors of ChaosMark of KhorneShieldsMusicianStandardTotal: 240pts12 Warriors of ChaosMark of KhorneShieldsMusicianStandardTotal: 240pts10 WarhoundsTotal: 60pts10 WarhoundsTotal: 60pts5 Marauder HorsemenLight ArmourThrowing SpearsMusicianTotal: 81pts5 Marauder HorsemenLight ArmourThrowing SpearsMusicianTotal: 81pts
Special12 ChosenMark of NurgleShieldsMusicianStandardBanner of RageTotal: 323pts5 KnightsMusicianStandardTotal: 230pts5 KnightsMusicianStandardTotal: 230pts
Sorry, just two quick notes:
You can't take both the Enchanted Shield and the Armour of Damnation on your Lord. You can equip only one piece of magical armor. Either the shield or your Chaos Armor, one or the other needs to mundane (usually the shield).
Also, and this is just personal, I much prefer throwing axes to throwing spears. I think the bonus to Str is much more important than the additional range.
I could've sworn that you can take multiple pieces of magical armour (Armour, Helm, and Shield). I guess I need to go back and check that section since I've never really used it (Ogres only have magical armour anyways, no shields or helms ><). I think that what I'll do is, since it's a friendly game and we don't mind if it's a couple points over, downgrade the Enchanted Shield to a regular one and upgrade the Sword of Might to an Axe of Khorne.
I was also thinking of getting rid of some hounds, definitely upgrading the spears to axes on the horsemen (can't believe I missed that entry), and maybe find some room to upgrade another unit of Warriors to Chosen.
How does the rest of the army look though? It's the very first list I've made for Chaos so I really have no clue how it'll perform.
The rules regarding magical armor (and items, in general) are on page 121 of the BRB.
I certainly wouldn't get rid of any hounds, not with so many Marks of Khorne in your list. If anything, I'd break them up into four units of 5, to use as screens to ensure your opponent can't bait your Frenzied MoK units into unfortunate charges.
Beyond that, I'm fairly new to WoC as well, so I'm not one to doll out serious, in-depth advice. The only other thing I see is the Banner of Rage on your Nurgle Chosen. That will be a rock hard unit, but I (personally) would rather see that combo on one of your Knight units. Nurgle Knights w/ Frenzy are fast, durable and hit like dumptrucks. Their speed of 7 over the Chosen's speed of 4 will really tell the tale, allowing you to choose when and where they fight (assuming you use your hound screen properly).
Ok I see the rule now, I just glanced at it before so must have thought it said something different.
Now that I think about it the MoN/Rage combo would be better suited for knights, but I have no idea if I would keep the Chosen as MoN or change it to MoK.
I've also been wondering how exactly to use the Hound screen. The way i'm imagining it is keeping the hounds in a big line in front of my MoK units, and moving them in front of units that I don't want to charge, and sort of bottle-necking my own troops to force them to attack units I want them to attack, and then maybe making a unit of hounds charge the flank to add to combat res. Am I right in thinking this or is there a more specific way of using the hounds as a screen?
Another thing I've been wondering about is the Banner of the Gods. I like the idea of making my warrior/chosen/knight units stubborn, but with it only being 6" I'm not sure if it's worth the points cost. Although with my BSB being on a steed I can make sure that I have him where I want him.
Nurgle is always a solid, if expensive, mark. There's always a benefit, in and out of combat.
The hound screen is basically meant to a) shield your expensive units from incoming missile fire and b) allow you to control which units your Frenzied units will charge (to a degree).
The shooting (and magic) thing is pretty self explanatory. Simply block enemy LOS whenever and wherever you can. When attempting to "control" who your Frenzied troops charge, just remember, you have to measure to determine if a Frenzied unit is within charge range prior to the forced charge. This distance includes wheels. So, simply place your puppies in between you MoK units and the enemy unit(s) you hope to avoid, in such a way that the Frenzied units remain beyond their legal charge range having to wheel around the unit of hounds. So long as your Frenzied boys are not within charge range, they won't have to charge.
Banner of the Gods ... I dunno. I haven't come to a conclusion on that one, myself. Terror is all well and good, and having a 12" diameter area of Stubborn sounds pretty great. I have yet to play a game with it. Not sure how practical it is, at least in a game with less than 3000 points.
Ok, some thoughts:
-I think this list lacks a big threat, and this is where the Lord comes in. this guy should be packing some MASSIVE punch. For example:
L - Chaos Lord
MoK, Jugger, Shield, Daemon Sword, Helm of Many Eyes.
Packing some serious punch, this guys best defense is offense! He strikes first to boot, with some level of protection against hitting himself. The Helm can be swapped out for Collar of Khorne, or Enchanted shield if you like, for a bit of extra defense (enchanted shield get shim to a -1+ save!
I also wouldn't bother with musk. Put the points somewhere else...
-Characters are a little overboard in general. If you wanted a serious magic phase, go for a Sorcerer Lord. Otherwise, go for Defense. Drop each wizard to level 1, and drop the banner of Wrath. Maybe even settle for 1 level 1 wizard as a caddy. even if you did get spells off, they won't do too much. A Hellcannon or two would be more useful then this much magic.
-Where is that BSB going to go? I can't see a use for his Mark of Nurgle, unless you're going to run him around on his own, which is a waste. Put him INSIDE a unit with the mark of nurgle, and it's just as good. Easy points for you there.
-Furthermore on the BSB, for the same amount of points, you could give the unit you plan on joining him to (nurgle knights maybe) the Warbanner. This does a couple of things. First, the standard can't be singled out in a challenge and killed. Next, you don't give away another 100vps if they break. Speaking of challenges, kit him up so he can fight - he's going to have to challenge every opportunity.
-Core setup is ok. Split those Hounds up into units of 5 though. More units for the enemy to think about. Get Flails onto those Horsemen before anything else. After that, put on what you like - throwing weapons won't do a huge amount.
-Give the Chosen Favor of the Gods instead - they need it more than the General. His roll isn't even guaranteed anyway, theirs is. It gives them a much better chance at rolling +1 toughness or +1 amour save.
-Surprised to see those knights unmarked. One should be Nurgle (by dropping the mark from the BS and the other should be Khorne (this is where the general should be, and makes it less likely the General charges out of the unit from his frenzy, if you didn't declare a charge with his unit. It's also very worth it on the Knights)
-As mentioned, I'd like to see Hellcannons rather than magic. I'm not sure if I've saved you enough points in the Character section to fit one or 2 in, but they would certainly complement your infantry.
Thanks for the tips =)
-I like the idea of always striking first but the stupidity turned me off a bit but that's because my ogres have Ld 7/8. With Ld 9 though I think I'll give it a try, it would just be really embarrasing if I failed the roll =P Also the daemonsword does look deadly with a Jugger Lord, but is it really worth it's points?
-As for my characters, I've just been so used to having a balance of magic/CC because of the ogres lack of magical protection (and lack of armour save) that I always take 2 L2 wizards. However I think I'll reduce the wizards down to 1 L1 scroll caddy with MoN for character sniping (I like that magic missile, and from what I understand from the wording it's any model, whether it's in a unit or not. I'd also like to drop the barded steed, put the BSB in with the chosen, giving him the war banner, and trying to fit in a second Exalted Hero, but put him on a juggernaught too.
-Can you explain how he can't be singled out in a challenge? I don't quite understand that because I can't find anything in the BRB.
-Already splitting the hounds into units of 5 (as described above). I'll try to work in points for flails too, but so many things in the WoC look so good and I still have to be around 2500
-Will give chosen Favour of the Gods instead, I see what you mean there.
-No idea why I left the knights unmarked, I'll be sure to give them some.
-I don't really like siege weapons too much, but with chaos being slower than ogres I might give it a try because it might be a whole extra turn before I'm even in CC.
I'll move points around, and have a whole new list within the day with the tips both of you have given me.
the deamonsword is fully worth the points, I usually play with that, juggy, pendant of slaanesh, that way even if he does manage to wound himself, hes for sure hitting extra times in the next combat round. also, due to adding d3 to your strength, your peeling armor saves like crazy with this guy.
Updated list based on previous comments. I really want to upgrade a unit of warriors to Chosen, so if anyone sees ~50pts that is unnecessary let me know so that I can try and upgrade a unit. Remember that it is a friendly list though, and even though I want to win I also want to have a fun match.
Total is 2503.LordsChaos LordMark of KhorneJuggernaught of KhorneShieldChaos DaemonswordHelm of Many EyesTotal: 385ptsHeroesExalted HeroMark of KhorneJuggernaught of KhorneEnchanted ShieldRending SwordTotal: 220ptsExalted HeroShield – 5ptsBattle StandardWarbannerHalberdTotal: 169ptsChaos SorcererMark of NurgleDispel Scroll x2Total: 155pts
Core12 Warriors of ChaosMark of KhorneShieldsMusicianStandardTotal: 240pts12 Warriors of ChaosMark of KhorneShieldsMusicianStandardTotal: 240pts5 WarhoundsTotal: 30pts5 WarhoundsTotal: 30pts5 WarhoundsTotal: 30pts5 WarhoundsTotal: 30pts5 Marauder HorsemenLight ArmourFlailsMusicianTotal: 86pts5 Marauder HorsemenLight ArmourFlailsMusicianTotal: 86pts
Special12 ChosenMark of NurgleShieldsMusicianStandardChampionFavour of the GodsTotal: 313pts5 KnightsMark of NurgleChampionMusicianStandardBanner of RageTotal: 315pts5 KnightsMark of KhorneMusicianStandardTotal: 260pts