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After a few days of tweeking my list, here comes version 1.0 that I'll be testing out on Wendesday. My overall plan is to refine this with enough play testing to make a solid list for the spring tournaments I plan to attend.
Its got what seems to be a basic hero setup, but after testing out the bsb on disc I may swap for a 2nd nurgle mage.
Mark of Tzeentch
Tendrils of Tzeentch
Fury of the blood god - may swap this for blood curdling roar later on.
Mark of Tzeentch
Golden Eye of Tzeentch
Mark of Nurgle
Marauder Horsemen x 5 - Use these guys are a rear guard
Marauder Horsemen x 5 - 105 points of yummy goodness
Marauder Horsemen x 5
Chaos Knights x5
Mark of Nurgle
Chaos Knights x5
Mark of Nurgle
Dragon Ogres x 3 - Give my line a little bit of a backbone.
Mark of Slaanesh
Warhounds x 6
Warhounds x 6
Warhounds x 6
My idea is to be fast. Nothing I got is slower than Mv.7. Be in combat by turn 2 if possible. The chariot and dragon ogres will go up the gut. The theory is not much can stand up to that kind of charge. Have a knight and khorne.horse take each side. That should be plenty of fire power. The slaanesh horse will stay to the rear and try to plug any holes that might develop. They won't kill anything that makes it through my tougher guys, but maybe hold them up long enough for me to compensate. And the doggies do what the doggies do best, die to shooting.
I really want to go with 2 nurgle sorcerers. I think it'd do wonders for my magic phase. Two buboes that you just have to dispel before my DP even starts casting. However, having a BSB wherever you need one is very nice too. Has nice synergy with the stubborn DP. And having no rank and files, I may lose some combats before I can get flanks in.
My only concerns would be the dragon ogres. They're untested by me so far and I don't know what to expect. If I'd drop them, I'd probably pick up another chariot and maybe spawns, but besides that I've run out of special choices, so I don't know where the points would go.
I think I've had enough experience with the nurgle knights/khorne m.horsemen combo to have faith in that combo taking on rank and file. I guess gunlines could be a problem, but if I can get my marauders to threaten the artillery, I should do just fine.
What do you guys think?
Last edited by Pinkus; January 27th, 2009 at 19:05.
That sir, is exaclty like the list I'm trying to make here, with the exception of Slaaneshi horsemen, 4xOgres and Hellcannon.
I've seen a unit of 3xDO in action, wasn't impressed. He did had a bad deployment, all of them panicked even before seeing battle. Yet 4xOgres with GW&Chaos Armour would be cheaper and do relatively same, and can be given MoK if you like. They still have 4 models M6 S6 AS4+, so not too shabby I'd say for staying power.
I don't like MoK horsemen but if they work for you then its good. Personally don't have faith in lone chariots --- too soft and goes down quick compared to a combined charge of two chariots.
I'd level down the Nurgle sorcerer. I'd only use him to cast Buboes and with Power Familiar he'll have enough PD for his own. Free points over there. If you lose this and the chariot, and use unmarked Ogres above, you'd have points for another unit of 4xOgres with GW (but no Chaos Armour) for more backbone strength.
Way I see it, an army like this must hit HARD and fast, and obliterate enemy lines faster. If they got tangled into CC, most of them will get into trouble. Big-flying-ugly-guy can help soften enemy lines or hunt for dangerous opponents, together with BSB and Nurgle sorcerer. It will either win fast, or die fast.
DISCLAIMER: everything is in my opinions of course. what is on the paper is not necessarily the same as on the table.
Last edited by Black_katZ; January 27th, 2009 at 12:02.
Daemon Prince, i would drop Tendrils and risk taking a miscast on the nose in favour of taking some other gifts. Soporific musk and Diabolical splendour are well worth thier points, but as a spell caster i think in your case DS will serve you much better.
Keep Fury of the blood god, leaving you 45pts spare or to get new abilities, if you can risk it maybe conjoined homonculus to increase spell potency.
As a preferance i would take him at lvl 3 so you retain the dispel dice but just one casting dice and spell. it saves points but as you will often only be casting 2-3 spells a turn your not loosing anything from it.
You need 4 dragon ogres to be affective. that extra ogre always makes a difference.
Have you considered running your knights in one big unit? know people complain that 2 units are more hitty and more likely to do damage but it frees up points for a magic banner not having 2 commands and gives you an edge on outnumbering by a fear causer.
Making my nurgle sorc level 2 means he uses his own casting dice to cast buboes. The power familiar in only there to help the DP. I plan on 5 die casting gateway if I get it that leaves 2 dice for pandaemonium which at that point will be hit or miss. But tendrils is huge to make sure gateway goes off. Its almost impossible to miscast when you can reroll a die and almost once a game your reroll will cause IF.
The thing I don't like about ogres is their LD7. Don't get me wrong, I actually play OK and would have the options and cost these guys have. I guess I'd save around 20 point a model which means straight up taking out the DOs would afford me the ogres. I'd lose a Move, WS, str, W, LD and only gain the slaanesh mark. 3 Dos have 12 wounds, it takes 4 ogres to get that much. I think I'll keep the dragon ogres for my testing this week, but seriously scrutinize their performance.
I have considered 1 big knight unit, but that's putting all my eggs in 1 basket. Also that means 1 flank doesn'thave any knights. For this list to work I need lots of units and out manuvering my opponent. I think I'll stick with the 2 units for now. They've worked great for me this year.
I'm getting a lot of success pairing up nurgle knights and khorne horsemen.
I missed the part that DO actually has W4 compared to Ogres W3.
Still, for a cavalry core army I'd consider for more bodies. Khornate horsemen could give a lot of hurt, but you'd need numbers to soak enemy attacks. The army will rely on DP successfully casting, thus getting a miscast on him is a no-no, so Tendrils should be a must.
I like them Dragon Ogre models actually, and like to add them to my army list. Until now, I've found them too few and too expensive (on paper). I'll wait and see if someone will play test them and see their results.
Actually, if my math wasn't wrong and you did switch them for 2 units of 4x Ogres, you can run the 1 unit of 10x Knights flanked with these Ogres. Just a thought.
DO's are under-estimated these days for their ability to provide a scary target for your opponent and take his vision off your other troops some with the fear of a devastating charge. Like any troop choice you need to protect them and back them up effectively otherwise yes they'll be useless and just fall down. You wouldn't run 5 knights into 7 HE swordmasters and expect them to live... the same goes for the DO's, if you play smart they'll smash into the enemy line/flank and cause horrendous casualties.
I usualy go with add hand weapons for the +1 attack (4 each) at S5 that's pretty good and those extra attacks can eat through another rank of infantry furthering your combat resolution. If backed up by knights etc, they'll worry your opponent even more as the damage potential is devastating.
I have to also agree that 4 are better than 3, but then 5 are better than 4 for the fact that if you lose 1 you arn't taking a panic test as well as you maintain a good amount of attacks to decimate most units.
At the end of the day, just support them, defend them and play smart with them and they'll do their job very well.
You know, I may swap the, for xHW instead of GWs. Since I want these guys to help take out rank and file, that str7 won't mean much, but more str5 attacks could. It also saves 12 points. I want to make the unit 4 strong, I just don't have the points.
I'd pretty much have to drop my 3x6 dogs to 2x5, drop slaanesh from my chariot and m.horsemen and swap the enchanted shield for just a regular shield on my BSB. Is all that worth 1 more DO?
Possibly be better to drop the single chariot and add in 2 more DO's. You'd be losing impact hits and 4 S5 hits for 8 S5 hits and more effectiveness to your DO's. The chariot by itself is vunerable and the extra DO's will make them very ferocious and really panic your opponent when they get near his line (20 S5 attacks in 5 cavalry bases!).
Their initiative is low so you deffinately either want to break the enemy on the charge or pair them with a high initiative unit.
Last edited by Lone99; January 27th, 2009 at 15:16.
5 wide DO wouldn't all fit against a ranked up 20x20 unit, but would against 25x25. Let's see what each option gives.
5 wide DOs with xHW gives me 20 attacks at str 5 ws4, but very low manuverability. Also gives 20 T4 wounds
3 wide DOs with xHW and a chariot gives me 12 str5 ws4, 4 str5 ws5, 2 ws3 str4 and D6+1 str 5 impact. Is more manuverable and gives me more options tactically, but the chariot can't march and can be busted by a str 7 hit. This gives 12 T4 wounds and 4 T5 wounds.
I can see both options being very very worthwhile. I guess I'll test this how I have it, maybe with xHW though, and if I find 3 DOs not being enough, or the chariot not helping, I can always switch. Like I said I got a month or two to really refine this list.