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I have been playing High Elves for a bit and am looking for a change of pace. I really like the build options within WoC. It looks like I could create lists that are strong to very strong in all the game phases except for shooting.
Here is my first go at a dragon lord-based list which nods at the standard HE build of a Prince on a Star Dragon. Any and all constuctive criticism is welcome:
Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon; MoK, Enchanted Shield, Chaos Daemon Sword; 2+ AS with 6 + D6 attacks at S5 +D3 (nevermind those 1s);Basically, if I was playing my Elf list, this guy would go after my Elf on a Star Dragon. Even accounting for ASF, I think the Chaos Lord wins assuning that I hadn't already blown the hell out of it with 3RBTs. Makes me think I should tone down the offensive attacks and put either some regen or ward save in there.Exalted Hero, BSB, on Khorne Juggernaut; MoK, Collar of Khorne, Helm of Many Eyes (never mind those 1s again)
Either way, in most deployments, this guy go will go down a flank with a unit of Chaos Knights and some hounds.Goes with the Knights that aren't with the dragonSorcerer; MoN; 2xdispel scrollGoes with the Warriors5 Chaos Knights of NurgleHammer #1 (go with the dragon lord)5 Chaos Knights, Banner, War Banner + BSBHammer #219 Chaos Warriors; MoK; Musician; Std. Bearer; Extra HW + ShieldsPoor man's anvil that hits lights out on low toughness enemies10 Marauder Horseman; Light Armor; Spear; Throwing AxeWill flank and war machine hunt10 Marauders; Light Armor; FlailsWill protect rear of warriors from march blocking flyers/scouts or try to get in on the flank of the enemy has no annoying scrubs5 x Chaos Hounds (poison)Will screen or bait for one unit of knights5 x Chaos Hounds (poison)Will screen or bait for one unit of knights
Yes you can.. From 2000 and more it's possible.
Ontopic : You lord, is pretty easy to kill. It's a monster in combat, true, but no ward safes or regeneration? Bolt throwers or cannonballs can ruin your day pretty quick. Also, the daemonsword seems very cool, but wait until it turns against you.
Runeshield, Crown, Armour of Damnation or Collar are your best goes, for a nice and killy lord. You won't really need that sword anyway, since a dragon alone can wreck mayhem.
Note : Watch out when frontal charging. You HAVE to challenge, and might lose combat by static CR of your enemy.
For the rest it looks, pretty solid. Though, i think your warriors can't keep up with the rest. I'dd dump them all, and go with the cavalry list theme. Those points can be used to include some more nasty-s like, dragon ogres or chariots.
Hope it helps.
Which he has space for, so that doesn't matter.
In terms of the list, i'd ditch the poison on your warhounds, they are there to die; why make them worth more points? Ditch the warbanner on the Knights, they make CR by killing everything they come in contact with, no need for a warbanner, with the saved points you could give them banner of rage to make them insanely deadly, and will keep your BSB from having to charge out by himself due to frenzy.
For the dragon, I'd ditch the MoK, it lets your opponent bait it, and thats a lot of points and killing power to just be lead around the table by the nose due to a great eagle or something of the like. Give him MoT or MoN to keep him alive longer, ditch the daemonsword, you'll regret taking it; a chaos lord on a dragon is already one of the most deadly things in the game, you don't need to put him at risk of attacking himself for unneeded killing power. Stick an axe of khorne or Runesword on there, or maybe just a flail and the crown of conquest or Collar of Khorne for a 5+ ward and MR2 to give him a better chance of living through the torrent of fire he's bound to suffer.
just my 2 cents, hope it helps.
2010 WoC Cav W/L/D - 7/3/1
Thanks. I agree completely. He is too easily taken out by a RPBT, by himself with the 1s, and by anything that might ignore/penetrate armor. Here he is re-kitted to survive. I guess I just got carried away on the killy optimization.
Chaos Lord of Tzeentch
With a 3+ Armor Save, a 3 Ward against non-magical/6 ward against magical, and regen, he will last a lot longer.
Armour of Morrslieb
Crown of Everlasting Conquest
I dropped the poison on the dogs and the war banner, added the banner of rage, and still had some points. Should I invest more into the Lord with some Daemonic gifts like Bloodcurdling Roar or Word of Agony? Perhaps a favour of the gods?
To be quite honest...the whole baiting frenzied...never really happens.....first off in the competitive tournies I've been in, no one kites their army to deal with frenzy because not every army has that and for competition you generally want balance. And no where in the codex does it say you have to share your marks with an opponent before it starts to matter, and with frenzy its a reasonable charge....like they have to be able to charge it in order for frenzy to work, unless of course theirs something your already declaring a charge on then frenzy doesn't matter.
"Oh really Mr. HE Eagle?" who is conveniently trying to set up a flank with chariot or something, should you declare a charge on the chariot, you don't need to worry about frenzy its if you don't declare a charge that you then must frenzy.
Unfortunately, most of stuff the Lord will fight will have magical attacks, like characters and big freaking monsters. Runeshield+Crown combo works nicely imo. 6 S6 attacks at WS9 makes him quite killy, the WS9 makes him hard to hit in cc, and 4+ regen against everything thats not flaming.
On another note:
1) Hounds are there to die. Drop the poison upgrades.
2) Split the Horsemen unit into two. Rank bonus won't do them good since they die quickly. Now you have TWO units that can hunt warmachines simultaneously.
3) You're including a frenzied guy in a non-frenzied unit. Just becareful not to get the BSB baited alone. MoK doesn't transfer to units
Last edited by Black_katZ; March 24th, 2009 at 01:55.
Currently building my poor-hammer WoC army.
"you don't need to worry about frenzy its if you don't declare a charge that you then must frenzy. "
Only half true, frenzy makes you charge any enemy unit in range during the compulsory movement phase, meaning if you don't charge in the declaire phase you are required to charge any target you are in range of in the remains phase, meaning fast cav, which would flee a charge declaration anyways will get auto charged and flee per normal, meaning you're left with your trousers hanging around your knees.
Chaos Warriors (2009) 16-4-9
I haven't been in a closed list tournament that doesn't require you to tell marks. Theoretically they should be painted to match their god and all tournaments are wysiwyg. Now the banner of rage is different, since its a magic item you don't have to tell someone you're frenzied that way until it affects the game.
Either way, its a BAD idea on a dragon. Getting 1 more attack each from a mount and rider that already have tons of attacks is bad. Dragon lords beg for the collar of khorne and mark of tzeentch. Very easy and cheap defense.
Even in a WYSIWUG tournament you could easily argue that any paint job is acceptable, it seems people think that chaos is required to paint itself red/green/pink/blue according to their mark, well no other army is restrictedx this way and nowhere in the rule book does it say you have to so no, evewn in those types of tournies you can have any paint scheme you want.
Chaos Warriors (2009) 16-4-9
Well, any time I ever place a unit on the table I tell my opponent the mark. If I screw myself or not, I personally find it more sportsmanship of me to do so.