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Alright, this is my first list that I've posted here, as said in the title, magic heavy. Probably going to be used against other WoC, lizardmen or Skaven. Helpful Criticism on the list/name criticism appreciated.
THE DARK CABAL
Chaos Sorcerer, Vryk the Ludicrous (190
lvl 2, MoT, Talisman of Protection, Infernal puppet
Chaos Sorcerer, Jurusithix (190
lvl 2, MoT, Skull of Katam
Chaos Sorcerer, Fordred the Spiteful (190
lvl 2, MoT, Staff of Sorcery, Enchanted Shield
Marauderx20 with Flails, Full CMD and MoN (150
Maradersx25 with LA & Shields, Full CMD and MoN (200
Chaos Warhoundsx7 (35)
Knights of Chaosx5, MoN, Full CMD, Banner of Rage (315)
Knights of Chaosx5, MoK (230
Last edited by Alvarelbandito; July 17th, 2009 at 08:45. Reason: getting rid of those damn Cyclopses
Ok. I'll do what I can to give some useful advice to you.
I'd think about mixing up your Marks, perhaps? It might be worth putting a Nurgle Sorcerer in there for Buboes - otherwise you're quite one-tricky. Buboes at 1,500 points would be great for taking out enemy Characters, since they'll have so few wounds. It'll eat up Dispel Dice and possibly even Scrolls.
I'm not convinced by the equipment you've given your casters. I think I'd consider putting them on Discs in order to increase their mobility significantly as well as providing an improved armour save. That would save the points you've spent on protective items which would be better spent on boosting your magic phase, since you want to be magic-heavy. I'd drop the Talisman of Protection and Enchanted Shield, personally.
Unless you plan on running the casters close together, I feel the Skull of Katam is overpriced. I'd look for a Power Familiar and the Book of Secrets before taking the Skull, which provides a modest increase to casting values over a very small area. Remember your Tzeentchian casters all already benefit from a +1 to casting.
Similarly, I'm not a fan of the Staff of Sorcery. I'd look at a Dispel Scroll or two before putting the Staff in my list; I don't feel that the +1 is worth the points it costs.
I would consider something like this for three Sorcerers:: Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, level 2, Book of Secrets, Dispel ScrollThat gives you ten Power Dice, five Dispel Dice, two Dispel Scrolls and one bound spell. Realistically you're going to get four or possibly even five spells off during a phase that your opponent has to stop. It is a large points investment, though - that'll cost you 621 points, which is 51 more than you originally spent. However, you get two extra Power Dice, two extra spells (one from Book of Secrets and one from the Rod of Torment) and two guaranteed dispels from the Scrolls. You also have greatly increased maneuverability.
: Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, level 2, Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll
: Mark of Nurgle, Barded Steed, level 2, Rod of Torment
There tend to be two widely accepted ways of running Marauders, neither of which you've gone for: the first is to use small units with Mark of Khorne and Flails in order to get cheap-but-hard-hitting flanking units; the second is to use larger blocks with Mark of Slaanesh, Light Armour and Shields in order to get a tougher, Immune to Panic, static combat resolution unit.
As a rule, it's worth looking at each unit of your army and deciding whether it's being supported enough or whether it's there on its own merits. I personally think if you're only spending 900 points on actual army, you're best deciding whether to run cavalry or infantry. It's tricky to balance the two on so few points. With that in mind, I would consider changing your Marauders so that they can support your Knight units, who will otherwise be left unsupported and lacking in static combat resolution; one way of doing this would be to consider changing your Marauders into Marauder Horsemen. For your 350 points you could almost run four units of Horsemen - two march-blocker and two cruise-missile units, which look like this:March-blocker: 5 Marauder Horsemen, Mark of Slaanesh, Throwing Axes, MusicianThat costs you 392 points, and you have two units who can control your enemy's advance - important if you plan on whittling them down using magic before they reach you! - and two units who can flank charge in support of your Knight units.
Cruise-missile: 5 Marauder Horsemen, Mark of Khorne, Flails
Your unit of Hounds is a good idea, but there's little need to run them in anything other than five if you're planning on using them to screen - and with your Knights all having Frenzy, you're definitely going to have to screen. I think your price for them is wrong, too - and, in point of fact, you shouldn't actually have the prices for naked units up; I think it breaches LO rules somehow. Individual item costs are a no-no.
Knights are, I think, our best unit. However, if you Frenzy them, they need screened. I think they hit plenty hard enough without having the Mark of Khorne. If you take two units of five Knights, give them both Mark of Nurgle to protect them while they cross the battlefield (they're going to be attracting fire!) and give one unit a Champion to protect your Sorcerer from challenges, you'll probably find they do a perfectly good job of hitting the enemy - especially when supported by flanking Horsemen. By using the march-blocker Horsemen properly and being patient with your cavalry, you can control which units you hit in which order - remember you don't have to just barrel across the table as fast as possible.
An alternative to using the Knights and Marauder Horsemen would be to drop the Specials altogether and use a unit of Warriors alongside your Marauders in some guise, or possibly to use Chosen instead. The important thing is the synergy - the Knights work best combined with Marauder Horsemen; Marauders work best when combined with Warriors/Chosen/some other infantry unit. Don't try and spread your army too thinly. You've said you want to focus on the Magic phase; that being the case, you should pick one more aspect of your army to develop and put everything that's left into it. You don't have enough points left after buying magic to buy cavalry and infantry; or, at least, I don't think you do.
Running Warriors or Chosen would be cheaper and allow greater static combat resolution - you could also stick the Banner of Wrath on the unit, which would give you yet another spell to throw at the enemy.
Overall, I like that you're feeling fluffy and seem keen to mix several elements of the army. I just feel that, at this points level, you should focus more definitely on one or two aspects of the army, rather than putting in a bunch of different units that probably won't work together quite so well. Points are scarce; use every unit that you buy to support another unit or to perform a specific function in the army. Warriors of Chaos players sadly don't have the luxury of throwing away points on units that won't synergise with the rest of our army.
Hopefully some of this is helpful. I think the single most important thing I would say is this: decide what you want your army to be best at, and then ask yourself how your units are contributing to that goal. Pick magic; pick close-combat; pick static combat resolution. Whatever. But, once you've decided how you're going to play the army, start putting together units than can work together specifically in the way you've decided you want your army to work.
Last edited by el_don; July 17th, 2009 at 21:00.
Heh, you're quite right. I played something that was nearly this list against dwarves, minus a sorcerer (Fordred the spiteful) and a BSB instead with the blasted standard and 2 units of 5 hounds as a meat shield.
First off, the knights had to move first with frenzy so they didn't get anywhere right behind my warhounds, they didn't get into combat early enough.
Secondly, there is no spell quite as ineffective as Treason of Tzeentch on dwarves with base S3 T4, and flickering flames of tzeentch can backfire quite easily by rolling a low strength. Combining these two facts together, I got sodomized to say the least.
Cloying quagmire would have been beautiful, if I wasn't a fool and followed your advise. Also the extra magic missile from book of secrets would have gotten me more bang for my buck.
The only thing that I can say is that I didn't misfire at all, and that the lvl 2 Tzeentch sorcerers can get off infernal gateway by rolling 13's, IF, HUGE IF, I roll the spell.
Last edited by Alvarelbandito; July 19th, 2009 at 08:02. Reason: Add in one last thing...