Tournament List 2250, The Valhalla Knights - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Tournament List 2250, The Valhalla Knights

    Hi everyone,

    I am building a list for an incoming tournament. The point limit is 2250 and one army composition rule is that I can't have more point in heroes than I have in core. I am sure you will find my army composition adequate, but I would like new suggestions as to how my list could be enhanced.

    I am still building the background of my army but for the moment the army is named The Valhalla Knights and it is led by the Baron Baldr.

    Baron Baldr the Decadent: Chaos Sorcerer, Lvl2, MoN, Barded Steed, DS, Power Fam.; 206 pts

    Count Sigurd the Immortal: Exalted Hero, BSB, MoK, Jugger., Flail, Enchanted Shield; 219 pts

    Niflheim the Damned: Chaos Sorcerer, Lvl 2, MoN, DS, Book of Secret; 190 pts

    The Varangian Guards:
    11 Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shield, Musician, War Banner; 229 pts
    10 Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shield, Musician, Rapturous Stand.; 208 pts

    Raiders:
    5 Marauder Horsemen, Musician, Flails; 81 pts
    5 Marauder Horsemen, Musician, Flails; 81 pts
    5 Chaos Warhounds; XX pts

    Valhalla Knights:
    5 Chaos Knights, Musician, Banner of Rage; 265 pts
    5 Chaos Knights, Musician, Stand. Bearer; 230 pts

    Valhalla Hammers:
    3 Dragon Ogres, Great W.; 231 pts

    Skrymir, Chaos Giant, MoS; 265 pts

    Total: 2235 pts

    Wounds: 70
    PD: 6 + 2
    DD: 2 + 2 (2x DS)

    My main strategy for this army would be to put both sorcerers inside both Warrior units. The knights (frenzied unit led by BSB ), DO and Giant will go on the flanks. Hounds and marauders are just there for war machine, scout hunting and making sure frenzied go where I want. The sorcerers take care of the heroes (and maybe put regeneration on the giant) from their relatively safe bunker while the fast guys charge.

    I still have 15 pts left but I can't use it on a hero since I have 615pts of characters vs 629 pts in core. I was thinking either a champion or an additional warrior.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Undivided's Avatar
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    I really like that army list has a bit of everything.

    Just to check you do no that a frenzied character doesn't make the unit frenzyed but if the character is in charge range he must charge out of the unit. I find frenzyed characters a bit dodgy

    For the marauders give em MoK drop the musician. Maybe give the knights some sort of mark?

    Drop the wizard to a scroll caddie there just better that way. As cool as chaos magic is, magic isn't a reliable thing...

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided View Post
    I really like that army list has a bit of everything.
    It seems nicely balanced, yup. Nice blend of Characters, solid infantry and I'm always a fan of Knights. Happy days.

    [quote=Undivided;1518138] Just to check you do no that a frenzied character doesn't make the unit frenzyed but if the character is in charge range he must charge out of the unit. I find frenzyed characters a bit dodgy[/quote

    Your Knight unit has Frenzy, though, due to the Banner of Rage. This isn't an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided View Post
    For the marauders give em MoK drop the musician. Maybe give the knights some sort of mark?
    You could give the Horsemen Mark of Khorne, the better for taking out Skirmishers and Warmachines, but I don't know how useful it'd be, as you'd also lose some control over the units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided View Post
    Drop the wizard to a scroll caddie there just better that way. As cool as chaos magic is, magic isn't a reliable thing...
    I disagree. Stick with your set-up. You're not likely to break many armies with this set-up, but you're likely to get a couple of spells off a turn, with luck - your enemy's going to run out Dispel Scrolls pretty quickly, I imagine!

  5. #4
    Senior Member Undivided's Avatar
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    Your Knight unit has Frenzy, though, due to the Banner of Rage. This isn't an issue.
    Ah but he said they would get frenzy because of the bsb not the banner i though he was trying to go 4 frenzy for both units

    You could give the Horsemen Mark of Khorne, the better for taking out Skirmishers and Warmachines, but I don't know how useful it'd be, as you'd also lose some control over the units.
    U lose control but u can still decide what they see because u can use ur fast cav ability to turn all the way around so u can see nothing (a cunning plan!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided View Post
    Ah but he said they would get frenzy because of the bsb not the banner i though he was trying to go 4 frenzy for both units
    I read that as "the unit with Frenzy, which will be led by the Battle Standard Bearer."



    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided View Post
    U lose control but u can still decide what they see because u can use ur fast cav ability to turn all the way around so u can see nothing (a cunning plan!)
    Yes, but that dramatically increases the time it takes you to do anything. If you decide in one turn you don't want to charge, and turn yourself around, you then lose the following turn turning back around before charging on the third turn. I agree cruise missiles have their place. I just prefer to have control over as much of my army as possible.

    As I read it, the Horsemen will be providing cover for the Knights - that makes Khorne on them a bit tricksy.

    *Shrugs*. Personal preference!

  7. #6
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Thanks for your comments guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by el_don View Post
    I read that as "the unit with Frenzy, which will be led by the Battle Standard Bearer."
    Exactly, I only have one frenzied unit. I would have like to not have to rely on frenzy and the juggy hero but after a lot games, I did not find any other setup as good as this one. These guys hit like a freight train leaving little behind. I have seen them killed twice and they were holding unit(s) worth twice their pts.

    Quote Originally Posted by el_don View Post
    Yes, but that dramatically increases the time it takes you to do anything. If you decide in one turn you don't want to charge, and turn yourself around, you then lose the following turn turning back around before charging on the third turn. I agree cruise missiles have their place. I just prefer to have control over as much of my army as possible.

    As I read it, the Horsemen will be providing cover for the Knights - that makes Khorne on them a bit tricksy.

    *Shrugs*. Personal preference!
    The cruise missile unit idea is nice. I guess if I could find a little more point, I could upgrade one unit. The points need to come from somewhere...

    Although I said that horsemen should be providing cover for the knights, I also plan to maybe keep the DO in front of the BSB and the giant on the side (letting the hounds and horsemen free to hunt war machine and baiters).

    Something like this setup:


    DDD
    ___HKKKKK_G
    ___________G
    Legend:
    _ : empty space
    D : Dragon Ogres
    H : Juggy Hero
    K : Knights
    G : Giant


    This way I am protecting my unit from any bait (the hero can charge without the unit but the unit can't) and if the DO are attacked the knights can attack (although if I am wheeling it will be easy to flank me, but that's where the giant comes in).

    Quote Originally Posted by Undivided
    Drop the wizard to a scroll caddie there just better that way. As cool as chaos magic is, magic isn't a reliable thing...
    That could be an option. Here are my ideas about it:

    I could switch to a scroll caddy on a chariot for 235 pts.
    This leaves 175 pts for another hero which could lead the other unit of knights... or something else (maybe chaos warrior...).

    Anyone has a good hero build to propose. Something which could work in synergy with the units I have. Apart from the juggy hero, my exalted drop like flies when confronted to other heroes (maybe that's just my luck?!). I have had some success with those build :

    Exalted Hero, MoT, Barded Steed, Shield, Collar of Khorne, Sword of Might; 191pts
    Exalted Hero, MoT, Disc of Tzeentch, Shield, Flail, Armour of Morrslieb; 184 pts

    The first one could easily drop his Sword of Might and lead the second unit of knights. The second one can replace his item by the Golden Eye. He could be a mage/war machine hunter since my magic defense is pretty thin. I also like the Slaanesh Hero on the boob steed, but I can't seem to make a good build with him (apart from making her a sorcerer lord).


    Quote Originally Posted by el_don
    I disagree. Stick with your set-up. You're not likely to break many armies with this set-up, but you're likely to get a couple of spells off a turn, with luck - your enemy's going to run out Dispel Scrolls pretty quickly, I imagine!
    I love the chaos warriors models but their use are somewhat limited when you field a very fast army (75% of my pts goes on units having at least MV6). Having a sorcerer inside those unit makes them viable since hanging back gives the sorcerer time to snipe enemy heroes. This is why I chose to have 2 lvl2 knowing that they would probably be worthless against some heavy magic armies. If I face a scroll caddy, my opponent faces quite a challenge since he needs to stop the sorcerers inside their bunker while getting charge by my cavalry.

    I am still keeping the idea of a scroll caddy in case I find a good strategy for my Chaos Warriors without sorcerers.

    --- EDIT ---

    Still 15 pts to spend, other options:
    - Armours on horsemen
    - Necrotic Phylactery on the juggy hero
    - Favours of the Gods on the juggy hero + armours for 1 unit of horsemen
    - Halberds on warriors
    Last edited by dapredator66; August 3rd, 2009 at 05:45.

  8. #7
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    I tried the list (with minor modifications) and I found several things lacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by dapredator66 View Post
    Baron Baldr the Decadent: Chaos Sorcerer, Lvl2, MoN, Barded Steed, DS, Power Fam.; 206 pts

    Count Sigurd the Immortal: Exalted Hero, BSB, MoK, Jugger., Flail, Enchanted Shield; 219 pts

    The Exalted Hero on the Jugger is really strong inside the knights. Frenzy is however a strategic liability but it is worth it. As hard as I try I can't get these guy to setup a flank charge. I am beginning to think I should deploy these guys first and then the fast cavalry/hounds. They seem to excel at charging head first into the thick of battle.


    Niflheim the Damned: Chaos Sorcerer, Lvl 2, MoN, DS, Book of Secret; 190 pts

    The 2 lvl2 are not strong enough even against just a scroll caddy. I need a third mage or some bound spell to reach 10 PD. You were right Undivided, I should go with a scroll caddy.

    The Varangian Guards:
    11 Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shield, Musician, War Banner; 229 pts
    10 Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shield, Musician, Rapturous Stand.; 208 pts

    My two Chaos Warriors units are pretty average. Granted, I faced superior units (like 20 White Lions or 20 Phoenix Guards with a Prince or BSB inside them) and I just didn't have a chance. I feel these guys don't cut it. One unit of 18 Warriors will stand a better chance in a Tournament I think.

    Raiders:
    5 Marauder Horsemen, Musician, Flails; 81 pts
    5 Marauder Horsemen, Musician, Flails; 81 pts

    The marauder horsemen were nice. I tried with and without light armour and the 5+ save did make a difference in survivability. Musician is great for bait and flee tactics and the lack of MoS did not make a difference. The only modification I would make is to remove the flails. I never use them, throwing axes are far more useful.


    5 Chaos Warhounds; XX pts

    Valhalla Knights:
    5 Chaos Knights, Musician, Banner of Rage; 265 pts
    5 Chaos Knights, Musician, Stand. Bearer; 230 pts

    The second unit of knights needs a hero inside to make it deadly. Ideally with collar of Khorne if I go with the scroll caddy way.

    Valhalla Hammers:
    3 Dragon Ogres, Great W.; 231 pts

    Skrymir, Chaos Giant, MoS; 265 pts

    The Giant is a great arrow magnet and when, emphasis on when here, he reaches enemy line, it hurts. 265 pts is to much however, I feel the Hellcanon would be a better investment, especially if I go the scroll caddy way (the misfire charts looks tasty).

  9. #8
    Junior Member stratovarion's Avatar
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    You've got the right idea.

    Just keep playing with it and you'll work out for yourself whats working. Personally I agree beefing the Warriors to one unit of 18. If you just go for a scroll caddy then you'll only need one unit to protect it anyway.

    Out of interest, how have the DOs been going for you, I've always seen them as an intriguing option thats I've never used nor played against.
    Current painting project: 2300 pts of Dwarfs in 5 weeks.

  10. #9
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stratovarion View Post
    You've got the right idea.

    Just keep playing with it and you'll work out for yourself whats working. Personally I agree beefing the Warriors to one unit of 18. If you just go for a scroll caddy then you'll only need one unit to protect it anyway.

    Out of interest, how have the DOs been going for you, I've always seen them as an intriguing option thats I've never used nor played against.
    The DO are good but nothing compared to knights. Honestly, if they don't get the charge they will flee from combat due to not generating enough CR. It happened a lot at first but I now use them as a counter charge or flanking unit and that seems to work better (although I still need to choose my target better).

    I usually include them as a complement to my knight units. They add what the knights lack (S7 and 4W). They really prove their worth against high toughness or high armour save units (cavalry, stank, chariots). They also bring a sort of scariness factor to the list. My opponents tend to put a lot of attention on them and will do weird things: fleeing from a DO charge with an hydra and a treaman that moved out of the way almost all game so that the DO wouldn't attack him.

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    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Following my own observations, I slightly changed my list. I played against a Dark Elves with this list and I was pretty satisfied with the results (a draw due to lack of time to finish the game).

    Exalted Hero, MoK, Jugger., Glaive of Putrefaction, Enchanted Shield; 215 pts

    Exalted Hero, BSB, MoT, Steed, Shield, Biting Blade, Bronze Armour of Zrakk, Collar of Khorne; 211 pts

    Sorcerer, 2xDS; 135 pts

    18 Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shield, Full Command, War Banner; 353 pts

    5 Marauder Horsemen, Musician, LA, Flails; 86 pts
    5 Marauder Horsemen, Musician, LA, Flails; 86 pts

    5 Chaos Warhounds; XX pts
    5 Chaos Warhounds; XX pts

    5 Chaos Knights, Musician, Banner of Rage; 265 pts
    5 Chaos Knights, Musician, Stand. Bearer; 230 pts

    3 Dragon Ogres, Great W.; 231 pts

    Chaos Giant, MoS; 265 pts

    2 Chaos Spawns; XXX pts

    Some new highlights from the game:

    Once again, my exalted killed his opponent in duel before the Glaive of Putrefaction could kick in. This item really look better on paper than it truly his. I will switch for a Sword of Might next game and see how it works.

    This time I deployed my frenzied knights right in the middle of my army. I also had two warhounds units to act as a meat shield in front. This time they were in the thick of the battle, never got baited, suffered heavy losses but still kept killing and killing...

    One flank was guarded by 2 spawns and a horsemen unit. These guys really work together: the spawns tries to block all entry to my flank and the horsemen baits the opponent in the direction of my spawns.

    The horsemen could use javelins or th. axes. There are times were you don't want to flee (ex.: getting charged by enemy fast cavalry like Dark Riders) and a stand and shoot reaction could make a difference. For 10 pts I could get javelin in both of my units.

    The second knight unit (the one not frenzied) could use the MoS. I know it seems like a waste but I always break a sweat when they test for psychology at a critical moment (and Murphy's Law strikes me to often).
    Last edited by dapredator66; August 25th, 2009 at 21:39.

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