Welcome to Librarium Online!
So basically i am playing a campaign lately and i am in the top 3. I am constantly facing demons and Darkelves and i cant seem to win a game. I am always on the losing side no matter what i field and i am really starting to lose hope in Warriors of CHaos.
Thats why i am here to hopefully get some advice and also be reminded where the glory of chaos lies.
The campain is based on a system of territories and the main rule is that every army should include a lord.
So here is the list:
Chaos Lord of Tzeentch– 360 pts
·Sword of Striking
·Armor of Morrslieb
·Book of Secrets (free) (Since the campaign is based on a system of territories i have one which gives me a free 25 pt item)
·Disc of Tzeentch
This is my first problem. I am not sure on the build of this guy. I would lik to have a flier but i am not sure that this guy can do a lot on his own. I am not the type of guy who trusts his chaos lord, i have seen him run a couple of times. I would like to see what you guys think on him. What mark would you suggest? What mount? Should i super equip him or make him as cheap as possible?
Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle – 206 pts
·Collar of Khorne
This guy will go with the non frenzied knights to give them some magic protection through MR2. I chose Nurgle to go buboes and Hopefully fleshy abundance for extra survivability.
Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle – 255 pts
Here i went with the same build but chose a chariot to make him hard hitting and Us5. Even here i chose Nurgle for buboes. He is more of a scroll caddy. I gave him the mark just to be able to have double Buboes. My magic setup aims more at defence then offence. SHould I keep the level 2 or shuld i make him level 1 and use his points on something else?
5x Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh - 90 pts
5x Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh - 90 pts
My core choices feature Marauder horsemen with mark of slaanesh because they are chep and effective. I gave them spears to make them hit harder for cheaper points. I rarely use these guys as bait as my opponents never fall for it, thats why i didnt give them musicians. I prefer using them as march blockers/ shooting nuisance.
5x Marauder Horsemen of Khorne – 115 pts
These dudes are flankers. I didnt keep their fastcav ability n order to give them a higher survivability. I tried these out and i feel like they are better like this, but i could be wrong. Should i keep them or make them fast cav? Why?
5x Warhounds – 30 pts
5x Warhounds – 30 pts
5x Warhounds – 30 pts
THe obvious meat shields meant to protect knights and Slaaneshi horsemen. I love these guys and i was tempted to remove the magic level from my level 2 to get a 4th unit. Sould i?
5x Knights of Chaos – 255 pts
·SB- Banner of Rage
5x Knights of Nurgle – 250 pts
These will be my hammers. ANy way i can make them better?
1x Hellcannon – 205 pts
1x Hellcannon – 205 pts
My anvils, flank/rear protectors, I love them as they saved my butt a couple of times. I think they are worth their points and possibly the best anvil in our list. As always i might be wrong.
So that is my lost. Unleash the criticism and the advice. Help a fellow chaos brother in need and you will be rewarded with rep. Thx guys.
Just throwing this out, but if you drop your lord, a unit of hounds and a hellcannon/lvl 2 of Nurgle then you chould field archaon. The good thing about this is that many armies can't deal with archaon at low points unless they know he is coming. Hope this helps some.
What flavor is your failure.
CURRENT: super glue fumes
Thx for replying and i see what you mean when saying not all armies can deal with archaon. However that is not ho i want to play. Taking a 685 pt model in a 2k list leaves me with nothing on the table and if i happen to lose him i lose the game. I am really not keen on that. Thx anyway for ur interest.
You contributed a lot to the discussions I started so seems only fair to jump in and offer what little I can.
Hmm, the idea of dropping the fast cav element of the Khorne marauder horsemen is interesting. I suppose it works as a frenzied unit wont be getting much out of being fast cav. They aren't shooting, they aren't really march blocking as they can't really. So all you are losing is there ability to move around your own units or terrain. So that is actually kind of cool. Certainly helps them get to their targets.
What do you intend to use your flying lord for exactly? What is his role in your army going to be? If you are going to hunt warmachines you might just want to go with a flail. I tried the lord on a disc tonight with a lot of survivability and largely it was in fact over kill for the role. My opponent (DE) didn't get many chances to attack him or shoot him before I had killed his crew.
Unfortunetly, I have never played or really looked at the Demons of Chaos so I have no informed advice there.
The hellcannons will be a nice addition provided you dont scatter too far. I can't decide how much I like them yet but they are some seriously tough units and make a great anvil like you said too bad they aren't able to keep up with the cav reliably. That being the case it might be tough to both get across the board with your cav to stop your opponents shooting/magic while also keeping them close enough to act as anvils. Then again there is nothing wrong with them just raining hell over your cav at your enemies either. That is a lot of firepower at that point total.
As for the Archaon thing, I'm personally not a fan of named lords/heroes. They are super expensive and are not powergamed to my likings. They all have neat unique factors but for the most part they are just too expensive.
With your magic, do you see the Darkelf going caster light? That has not been my experience, with as little casting as you have it might be tough to get any spells off. Though it only takes a lucky one with MoN. Personally, I like to go heavy or none in the magic phase.
Thx for your reply, i like your type of approach which doesn't impose but gets me to think. Thanks for putting up those questions which i will try to answer.
So my I want my lord to act as a Warmachine hunter and distraction at the same time. I would use him as a sort of pincushion, making him get a lot of shooting may of which he can hopefully counter with a 2+ AS and a 3+ ward. I want to use him to counter the DE lord on peggy which is built using the unkillable way (thats why i took BCR). The sword of strikng is meant to make my lord hit on 2s...being str5 he will wound on 2s as well againts t3 opponents. This is the most reliable build i found so far since i can easily get 5 hits 5 wounds most of the time not wasting any attacks.
A second build could be to go with Sword of striking, Runeshield, Goldeneye (free) and Word of agony. This would be a more combat oriented one. This way i could lure the Dreadlord on pegasus who would definately charge me since he is so full of his non killable option and resting on the fact that he has a lance which either grants him +2 str and killingblow, or +3 str on charge. As soon as he hits combat he would get his lousy str 4 and hitting on 3 wounding on 5 with a 3+ AS to my side will most likely keep me alive to strike back on the pegasus with 5 attacks hittin on 2s and wounding on 3s. This would most likely help me win combat and break him automatically since i would be fear causing and outnumbering him by 1. The word of agony i would use in a flank charge over knights hopefully removing 3 or 4.
As for hellcannons, they will get to combat as i have some good experience using them. I always take 1 or 2 in all my armies since i believe that apart from the knights they are the best unit our army has to offer.
As for magic he will most likely be going with 2 -3 casters 2lv2 and a lv1 all equipped with a couple of scrolls and using a focus familiar. Seeing hellcannons he will definately take lore of shadows aiming at pit of shades. I think i'd better remove that level from my level 2 and get either a 4th unit of hounds or a 4th dispel scroll as i am likely not going to be casting anything other than praying for an IF buboes.
If he's going with that many sorceresses I would consider taking a sorceror lord for extra DD & more spells as well to force him to use DD, otherwise you may find you'll have a hard time getting spells through with only a level 2 and 1. A tzeentch sorc lord on a disc would be be able to do a lot more than just a lord on the disc. A sorc lord can still hit hard enough to be a threat in combat vs DE. Furthermore, having flickering fire will be golden vs the hydra if he brings one since both your other casters are nurgle, you'll need some sort of flaming attack
Maybe you could drop the scroll on the level 2 and pick up the familiar that gives you another spell? (Forget the name, mind just went blank...) then you'll have a 50% chance to pick up abundance. With a sorc lord you'll have extra DD as well and less need for the 3rd scroll.
I'm not sure if you'd want to get into combat with his dreadlord. Do you know if he'll take a lance for sure? If he really is that tooled up he's probably got the pendant, armor of servitude & crimson death meaning he has an armor save, ward save if he rolls 5 or lower, regen and hits at str 6 (thats how I would do it anyways!). Either way, regardless of the weapon you won't be able to kill him and would likely get stuck in with each other for the entire game. To deal with the survival dread use buboes - since it doesn't have a strength his pendant is useless which only leaves him with a regen save.
Also as previously mentioned, I don't think a frenzied unit would make a good flanker. You won't be able to control them well down the side. I think flails also require 2 hands? So that would make shield useless in combat and if you have a unit of hounds to screen they should be ok from ranged attacks. Ditch those and you'll still be fast cav.
I would advise against the expensive chariot vs DE. A very common assassin setup is with manbane & rending stars, meaning a BS 9 model with 3 ranged attacks at str 7 will pretty much guarantee that the chariot will get 1 shot. The assassin could potentially have a 20" move too if he has the cloak of darkness which would be prime for chariot hunting. I would expect this assassin since he is going caster heavy - which protects the cloak's bound spell as you need DD for all his other stuff and needs some strong CC support.
I don't have any experience w hellcannons but they seem fairly unreliable. I think a misfire roll on them has an effect that does soemthing to your casters too? Might sound cheesy but dual warshrines would be amazing. It can give a 3+ ward to your tzeentch lord or turn your knights into absolute monsters. You can possibly have an armor save, abundance regen, 4+ ward, -1 to hit from MoN and some combat buff would equal god mode on your nurgle knights.
Thx Astynax for the valuable feedback. Though most of what you say is correct i don't totally agree with you.
So, what u said about getting stuck with the dreadlord is right. I would only be hoping to break him and capture him but that is totally not guaranteed.
Even your idea of going with a lv4 on disk is nice and it is a wise choice as well, however that would cost more than my lord i would have to shift my list around quite a bit.. Going magic heavy would mean entirely changing the play style... and i am currently focusing on combat.
I am still not sure about that lord on disk. I usually don't play lords as they cost too much and don't do much in my opinion. An exalted is way better.
As for warshrines, if i where to go with magic i would still take the cannons. I am 100% concinced they are the best unit we have. They can hurt my casters its true, but if i were to go mag heavy i would invest on a puppet which would grrant me some conrol over my and his miscasts.
I played Warshirnes before and they are too random and too slow for my tastes. Your point of view is correct, but i am just not capable of using a movement 4 unit. In fact i dont take warrriors.
You are correct on the chariot. I will remove that guy as he is too much of an easy target against DE. i still dont know hat to do with those hundred points, i coud follow your advice ad go mag heavy...guess i need to think about it. I still have time for that.
against that many casters i'd def go for magic heavy myself, taking a tzeentch sorc lord with disk, spell familiar, golden eye or collar of khorne and a scroll
then a lvl 2 nurgle sorc with infernal puppet
and a lvl 2 tzeentch sorc with power familiar and a scroll
this is giving you a very good chance of getting pandaemonium which would really stuff him up if you get to cast it (throw lots of dice at it with your lord) you then also have two other casters one to buboes, the other is for another crack at pandamonium if your lucky. you have the puppet to help with your miscasts and to make his worse
khorne marked mara horse are fine as flankers/march blockers. as they're fast cavalry, if you dont want them charging blindly next turn place them out of line of site (but within 8") and use the free reform to point them away from charge lines
couple of units of knights + puppies and a couple of helcannons and your golden
I'd be very tempted not to have anything on foot in this list as you want to hit him hard and fast
maybe a unit of DOs would be useful as well