Tournement 2k/2250 Help required Chosen/Magic - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    JSJ
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    Tournement 2k/2250 Help required Chosen/Magic

    Good evening all... Or should I say good morning =)
    I'll start by saying I'm not an experienced player, I really enjoy the painting and modeling side of warhammer but I'm getting into playing now and am having a lot of fun.
    I'm lookin for help in compiling a competitive 2k/2250 army list with some of my favorite models and tastes if possible. I do find losing quite demoralizing so if what I'm hinting just isn't really competitive and more friendly orientated please say so and I'll rethink =).
    I'm liking warriors of chaos, magic and chosen. What I dislike is marauder horsemen, maybe a unit of 5 to fill out a troop choice and provide cover for other units or something along those lines.

    Will it be possible to make a competitive army list so I can use powerful magic and chosen? Maybe use the magic to pelt enemies from afar making them aproach me and come into reach of my Chosen? Knights for flank protection/warmachine killing maybe? The knights are optional really I'm just a bit lost and trying to suggest things that might work. As I said I'm not an experienced player by any means. If I can fit chosen and powerful magic into key roles while avoiding a bulk of marauder horsemen (I don't like the models much) and be competitive I shall be very happy also can you buy the chaos familiar models that accompany the sorcerers? If so where because I can't find them on the GW site and I'd love to paint some of those intricate models =). I know I need to protect sorcerers and I'm not sure how to do that either.
    I would much appretiate any help and army list suggestions you guys could provide along these lines. Tactics for a newbie like me would be terrific too =)

    Many thanks.


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  3. #2
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    I suggest you came up with a list and let everyone make suggestions.
    You could try to do a list based around the Banner of the Gods (on a mounted Hero), 6 lvl of magic and 3 infantry unit. The Banner of the Gods should be able to keep you in the game even if you messed up bad.

  4. #3
    JSJ
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    Right after much thought I have come up with an army list and some vague tactics. I'll write it up here and any comments/help that you guys could provide would be greatly welcomed.

    Sorcerer Lord 235
    Level 4 35
    MoT 20
    Chaos Steed (barded) 24
    Skull of Katam 50
    Spell Familiar 15
    Warrior Familiar 20
    TOTAL: 399

    A brief explanation before I continue: All the sorcerers will be on steeds and be put in with a unit of marauder horsemen so that they get +2 armour save, get to duck behind the marauder horsemen when there is incoming fire and on top of that get into spell range faster.
    All the sorcerers will also have Warrior Familiars which will provide 4 S5 auto hits at the start of every combat round even if I'm charged they go first so that should somewhat limit any damage from that side of things. Just sit infront of the enemy casting Buboes and the first Tz spell and when they charge me I should still do ok. Gateway should be more likely with the spell familiar too.
    Anyway carrying on:

    Chaos sorcerer 85
    Level 2 35
    MoN 20
    Chaos Steed (barded) 16
    Power Familiar 25
    Warrior Familiar 20
    TOTAL: 201

    And 2* the following:
    Chaos Sorcerer 85
    Level 2 35
    Chaos Steed (barded) 16
    Warrior Familiar 20
    TOTAL: 156 (*2=312)

    SPECIAL:

    10 Chosen 180
    Shields 10
    Great Weapons 20
    Full Command 50
    Blasted Standard 40
    MoT 20
    Favour of the Gods 5
    TOTAL: 325

    5 Chaos Knights 200
    Full Command 50
    TOTAL: 250

    5 Chaos Knights 200
    Full Command 50
    TOTAL: 250

    I figure that the chosen flanked either side by the Knights (them ofcorse a bit more forward) going up the middle will provide a nice punch and force the enemy to divide his attention between my spell flinging friends riding round and this center sort of block.
    They get to optimize their eye of the gods roll thanks to favour and they also get a 4+ ward against shooting on top of their 3+ normal save.
    The knights are just awesome out of the box I figure and don't really require any magical assistance to fulfill their role.

    TROOPS:

    6 Marauder Horsemen 78
    Light Armour 6
    Shields 6
    Full Command 30
    MoS 10
    TOTAL: 130
    The sorcerers will be in this unit for the reasons explained above, MoS also wonderfully makes my sorceress immune to terror, fear etc which will come in useful =)

    5 Marauder horsemen 65

    5 Marauder horsemen 65

    Those last two units are mainly just to fill out the troop requirements, provide a bit of a meatshield or flank protection for me or to fast cavalry round the enemy flanks march block and just be a bit of a nusance of possible =)

    ARMY TOTAL: 1997

    As I said I am by no means experienced so all comments and suggestions are welcomed with opened arms. To me it seems good, on paper at least but all your opinions are much valued as you guys know better what you're doing.
    As for play style I came up with the list so I guess it suits how I wish to play, that means that if the list is competitive I shall be a very happy bunny

    Many thanks,
    JSJ

  5. #4
    Member DraagDarkfire's Avatar
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    Hello there, welcome to chaos.

    I have seen your list and decided to share some thoughts on it with you.

    so here it goes:


    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    Right after much thought I have come up with an army list and some vague tactics. I'll write it up here and any comments/help that you guys could provide would be greatly welcomed.

    Sorcerer Lord 235
    Level 4 35
    MoT 20
    Chaos Steed (barded) 24
    Skull of Katam 50
    Spell Familiar 15
    Warrior Familiar 20

    You cannot have multiple arcane items on the same hero. Every hero can have 1 of each magic item type except for dispel scrolls and power stones.

    This means that every hero can have:
    1 magic weapon
    1 magic armor
    1 arcane item (except for dispel scrolls and power stones)
    1 enchanted item


    TOTAL: 399

    A brief explanation before I continue: All the sorcerers will be on steeds and be put in with a unit of marauder horsemen so that they get +2 armour save, get to duck behind the marauder horsemen when there is incoming fire and on top of that get into spell range faster.
    All the sorcerers will also have Warrior Familiars which will provide 4 S5 auto hits at the start of every combat round even if I'm charged they go first so that should somewhat limit any damage from that side of things. Just sit infront of the enemy casting Buboes and the first Tz spell and when they charge me I should still do ok. Gateway should be more likely with the spell familiar too.

    no.1

    You cannot have multiples of the same magic item in a single army so you cant have 4 warrior familiars.

    No.2
    I am not sure if i am understanding you right, do you intend on putting all the sorcerers in 1 unit? i would not advise that as you would have all your eggs in one basket and you will also have limited targets because of limited line of sight.

    No.3
    Marauder horsemen are too fragile and usually are the first units to get shot as they are easily killed. I wouldn't put a 200+ pt sorcerer with them let alone 4.

    Anyway carrying on:

    Chaos sorcerer 85
    Level 2 35
    MoN 20
    Chaos Steed (barded) 16
    Power Familiar 25
    Warrior Familiar 20
    TOTAL: 201

    And 2* the following:
    Chaos Sorcerer 85
    Level 2 35
    Chaos Steed (barded) 16
    Warrior Familiar 20
    TOTAL: 156 (*2=312)

    SPECIAL:

    10 Chosen 180
    Shields 10
    Great Weapons 20
    Full Command 50
    Blasted Standard 40
    MoT 20
    Favour of the Gods 5
    TOTAL: 325

    i would put the general over here together with his steed. and try to add another 3 chosen to at least get 2 ranks.

    5 Chaos Knights 200
    Full Command 50
    TOTAL: 250

    5 Chaos Knights 200
    Full Command 50
    TOTAL: 250

    Instead of having full commands go for a mark of nurgle or a mark of khorne and a standard bearer. Having 20 points for an extra attack is not worth it and the musician wont help you much as they rarely flee and rarely get to draw a combat.

    I figure that the chosen flanked either side by the Knights (them ofcorse a bit more forward) going up the middle will provide a nice punch and force the enemy to divide his attention between my spell flinging friends riding round and this center sort of block.
    They get to optimize their eye of the gods roll thanks to favour and they also get a 4+ ward against shooting on top of their 3+ normal save.
    The knights are just awesome out of the box I figure and don't really require any magical assistance to fulfill their role.

    TROOPS:

    6 Marauder Horsemen 78
    Light Armour 6
    Shields 6
    Full Command 30
    MoS 10
    TOTAL: 130
    The sorcerers will be in this unit for the reasons explained above, MoS also wonderfully makes my sorceress immune to terror, fear etc which will come in useful =)

    I have already expressed my feelings on this unit. I dont agree with 4 heroes in it. Plus you have spent too much points on 1 unit. If you remove the command you would be able to give throwing axes and mark of slaanesh to the other 2 units.

    5 Marauder horsemen 65

    5 Marauder horsemen 65

    Those last two units are mainly just to fill out the troop requirements, provide a bit of a meatshield or flank protection for me or to fast cavalry round the enemy flanks march block and just be a bit of a nusance of possible =)

    ARMY TOTAL: 1997

    As I said I am by no means experienced so all comments and suggestions are welcomed with opened arms. To me it seems good, on paper at least but all your opinions are much valued as you guys know better what you're doing.
    As for play style I came up with the list so I guess it suits how I wish to play, that means that if the list is competitive I shall be a very happy bunny

    Many thanks,
    JSJ
    After all those change suggestions let me say hat your choice of units is not bad and that with a little bit of tweaking you could have a solid list.

    Anyways, hope that my thoughts help you in some way.

  6. #5
    JSJ
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    This is starting to do my head in now, I can't very well make an army list if I'm not aware of all the rules =/ it's a bit frustrating because I've read the rule book and that stuff just didn't go in, it is rather big =P
    Any chance you could refer me to some solid lists that are already established by some people who know what they're doing?

    Many thanks for your help and comments thus far,
    JSJ

  7. #6
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    This is starting to do my head in now, I can't very well make an army list if I'm not aware of all the rules =/ it's a bit frustrating because I've read the rule book and that stuff just didn't go in, it is rather big =P
    JSJ
    Don't worry, you need to play a lot of games to really get to know the rules. The most difficult part of the game is mastering the movement phase. It seems so simple in the book yet it is very difficult in reality to plan your movement correctly.


    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    Any chance you could refer me to some solid lists that are already established by some people who know what they're doing?

    Many thanks for your help and comments thus far,
    JSJ
    I do not suggest you take those lists as is. Try to get the essence of it and choose what you like (not what they use).

    Here's a solid infantry list, I think the guy won the Seattle Grand Tournament with it. I tried something similar (infantry + banner of the gods) and it works a lot better on the table than it looks on paper: Briar Knights (Seattle GT Winner)

    I also like Pinkus Deamon Prince list a lot. It is an all cavalry army. I find it more tricky to use than the last one (you can't make mistakes with this few models): DP - fast list v2.0 (DP - fast list v2.0), My Fast DP list; Variant 1

  8. #7
    JSJ
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    I have to say, thankyou ever so much for your help it is very much appretiated.
    Those are some very cool lists and I'll attempt to modify them but I don't seem to be enjoying this anymore =\

    Anyway the infantry list reminded me of one of the GW staff member's lists in my local GW.
    It is very much eggs in one basket but it won the one battle I saw it in against vamps, whether it was luck or a bad vamp list I don't know. Anyway I would very much like your opinion on it as you definately seem to know what you're doing.
    So here goes:

    Chaos Lord 210
    Runesword 50
    Runeshield 50
    Total 310

    Exalted hero 110
    Shield 5
    Army Battle Standard 25
    Banner of the Gods 125
    MoT 10
    Total 275

    Sorceror of Chaos 85
    Level 2 35
    MoN 20
    Power Familiar 25
    Total 165

    Special-

    13 Chosen 234
    Shields 13
    Great weapons 26
    Full Command 50
    Blasted Standard 40
    MoT 20
    Collar of Khorne 25
    Total 408

    5 Chaos Knights 200
    Banner and musician 30
    Total 230

    Troops-

    5 Marauder horsemen 65

    14 Chaos Warriors 210
    Shields 14
    Full Command 30
    MoS 10
    Total 264

    15 Chaos Warriors 225
    Shields 15
    Full Command 30
    MoS 10
    Total 280

    Army total 1997.

    The Chaos lord and exalted hero join the chosen, the sorceror joins the unit of 14 CW. The marauder are just there for troop requirement and the odd meatshield.
    The main idea is that the knights run round causing trouble while the Chosen sit tightly between the two units of chaos warriors so they all get the banner benifits. The CW won't move so keep the Chosen flanks protected. The chosen have 3+ normal save and 4+ ward against shooting trying to keep them alive till they reach close combat.

    That's pretty much how it was played and won but like I said it could have been one off and I'd love your opinion on it, well if it will be competitive enough.

    Thanks again,
    JSJ

  9. #8
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Nice list! It could indeed work as it is.

    Some easy tweaks you could add:

    - Put a chaos steed on both the Lord and Hero if you have the models. This gives you a great 1+ Sv and adds one unit strength to your small Warriors unit (and movement to change in between unit).

    - Your wizard will not perform very well. In fact, don't expect to do magic unless you bring 8PD on the table (at 2000pts). Therefore, you would be better to transform it into a scroll caddy:
    Sorcerer, 2x Dispel Scrolls; 135pts (just try to block your opponent best spell, it should hold for 2-3 turns).

    - I would add a musician to the horsemen (that way you can bait, flee and rally more easily).

    On a more realistic level, if you ever bought a chaos Battalion, you might want to switch a chaos warrior unit into a marauder one (and use some hounds).

  10. #9
    JSJ
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    It's nice to hear it wasn't a one off and it can win me games but I do fear that you are slightly humouring the list as all the others have been throw backs, the 'on a more realistic level' is rather worrying.
    I spend a long time painting my models and like to think I have a well painted army =) if it's going the wrong way it's best I know now and don't waist too much more time =)

    I totally agree with the sorcerer idea I was worrying about that myself so that's a great solution.
    The musician for the horsemen is also a great idea I'd have never thought of that and have indeed changed that too. I had a couple of spare points after the changes and gave them shields cause I figure they won't get flanked much and the 4+ frontal save is worth 5 points.

    What I'm trying to say is that I'd spend a while painting 15 Chaos warriors especilly 29 so I don't really want to do it on false hope =)

    Thank alot for your continued assistance,
    JSJ

  11. #10
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    It's nice to hear it wasn't a one off and it can win me games but I do fear that you are slightly humouring the list as all the others have been throw backs, the 'on a more realistic level' is rather worrying.
    I spend a long time painting my models and like to think I have a well painted army =) if it's going the wrong way it's best I know now and don't waist too much more time =)
    I only meant it would cost you less (29 warriors is 3 box of 12, if you already bought a battalion you might as well use the 20 marauders and buy only 24 warriors). If you already have the models than there is no problem!

    As for your list, I find it pretty good. I can of course give you more drastic suggestion if you really want to but you won't necessarily do better with them. I suggest to proxy your list and play test it a little. Some people seems to do better with all cavalry, others with heavy magic or heavy infantry.

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