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This is my first army so any tips on units, weaapons/armour, magical items etc. are all appreciated. i've written this army based loosely on some other army lists but i've written it up mostly by myself. also are chaos spawn any good?
Lord - 318 points
Sorcerer - 165 points
Chaos sorcerer (lvl 2)
I'm not sure about magical items, please help!
18 Chaos warriors - 348 points
18 Chaos warriors - 348 points
30 Marauders - 170 points
5 Warhounds - xx points
6 Warhounds - xx points
Special - 250 points
5 Chaos Knights
Hell cannon - xxx points
War shrine - xxx
Thanks in advance for the feedback!
Last edited by CaptainSarathai; October 7th, 2010 at 13:40. Reason: moved, added a tag, corrected pts costs.
Hey there, I'm pretty new too but I would definitely suggest the following:
1. Unit champions are generally not worth the points, you're paying nearly the price of a whole model for a single attack. I would only use a champion in the unit led by your sorcerer, as this protects him from challenges.
2. A BSB is a must.
3. Magic is massive and can make or break the game. I'd probably suggest swapping your sorcerer and lord around, i.e. playing a sorcerer lord and exalted hero as your BSB. Even a mounted lord won't get into close combat until about turn two or three, so all the points you pay for his fantastic stats and wargear don't seem like great value - you may only get ot use them for 3 turns of the game, or he might even be killed at range before he's had any impact. Whereas magic is useful from the get go so I'd rather go for a better wizard. The extra leadership from a lord is wasted anyway if you're charging him off on a Juggernaught.
4. Item wise you should look to protect your characters. The talismans that give ward saves are excellent (esp with Mark of Tzeentch). Collar of Khorne is a great item which offers a ward save AND Magic Resistance (which extends to the character's unit remember). Blasted Standard is great (gives ranged protection for the unit).
5. I'd be tempted to have two different flavours of Chaos Warriors. It's common to see Khorne warriors with additional handweapons (4 attacks apiece!) and Tzeentch warriors with a shield and either regular handweapon or halberd. In fact shields on Khorne warriors isn't a great combo, since frenzied troops can't benefit from a parry save.
6. The marauders are not a unit that will benefit from shields. Their role is to be cheap and expendable. A shield will be ignored by strength 4 attacks (which will be pretty much everything) so you're basically buying a parry save for the few that will make it to melee. I'd drop shields in favour of Great Weapons of flails, and consider MoK for extra the atacks and immunity to psychology. This unit will hit HARD when it closes in.
7. Hellcannon and Warshrine = Great, good choices. I might be inclined to drop a unit of dogs and use the warshrine sideways up front as a screen instead. That will help protect your infantry and get a decent hand to hand unit closer to the action. Give it MoT if you can afford it for 4+/3+ saves.
8. In terms of unit size, 30 marauders and 5 knights is about right for this size game. 18 Chaos Warriors might be a bit on the large side, Maybe drop 3-6 from each unit and perhaps grab a unit of Marauder Horsemen or tool up your other character. If you're going for hardy Chaos Warriors with a good save (ie MoT with shield) then 12 is probably a good number, a few more for the less protected Khorne guys.
9. Dispel scroll is a good choice, if you're spending a lot of points on a socrcerer then infernal puppet is great too - that will help make your miscasts less devastating while screwing the enemy casters at the same time.
First of all, we need to move this over to the WoC Armylists section. >Moved<
:: A BSB is a must for combat, but not necessarily for Break Tests. 'The Will of Chaos' will let us reroll Panic regardless of where the BSB is on the table. Although having a BSB with Doom Totem or the Banner of the Gods for your main regiment is cool, and having an extra Exalted in the thick of it, plus getting Rerolled Break and Restrain tests is good, Warriors don't usually need him as much. With as much Khorne as you have though, I'd pick one up.
:: With all that Frenzy, have you perhaps considered swapping a MoK to carry a Banner of Rage? From there you can mark them Nurgle to save them from shooting, or Tzeentch to help save them all around. I'd consider doing it to whichever regiment is going to escort a character- because that regiment will probably take the most punishment.
:: Remember that regiments designated to escort characters can drop a model from the ranks in his place. This will save points in the long run.
::ChaosLordUK is doing pretty good for a newby giving suggestions , listen to him for a lot of this.
do you know which army your likly to use this against or any army that you can? as this determines alot such as
high elves: dont bother about I your going 2nd in all fights and shields help
orcs and gobs: hellcannon is a must to destroy their many perfetic hordes
empire/dwaves:sheilds and tzeentch or nurgle your choice
Hi guys thanks for posting. First of all, my first battle is against high elves and i think he is going to use a gun line, and i'm not really sure how to tackle that. Just a few questions:
1. ChaosLordUK, you said to "use the warshrine sideways up front as a screen". what does that mean? do you mean using it to break the line of sight of archers, artillery etc.? also what unit should i target with Giver of Glory?
2. regarding marauders, since i am going up against a gun line should i try to beef them up with shields, light armour etc. or should i leave them as a hard hitting killing unit?
3. against a gun line should i just use MON on most of my units?
4. also, i know i'm a noob but i don't really understand how BSB's, standard bearers and magical banners all work. can they be in the same units? how many of each can i have?
5. Also, CaptainSarathai you said to replace morslieb with armour of destiny. is this so that i get a ward save against magic as well? also, does morslieb give me the 4+ armour save of chaos armour as well as ward save?
thanks for the help guys and once you reply i will rewrite my army list and post. and just tell me if i need to completely rewrite it now that i'm going up against a gun line.
Exactly as you said, place it at the front of your deployment zone but facing a flant, so its wide side faces the enemy. This will break line of sight for the archers and basically does the same job as a screen of dogs. Because it moves as a monster I *think* that means it can turn on the spot and doesn't have to wheel, so you can just face up when the enemy gets close.
As for giver of glory, it's kind of down to personal taste. Do you beef up one unit until it's super-awesome (and make it quite a target) or do you spread your buffs?
Either way don't waste it on something daft like dogs, and probably not marauders. It should probably be your knights or a unit of Chaos Warriors (chosen if you have them).
Just think about what each unit's purpose is: dogs are there to die, marauders are cheap and expendable infantry designed to tie up the middle of the field, whereas Chaos warriors and knights are your elite troops that do the damage.
With regard to banners. Any standard bearer may take a magical banner, either from the basic rulebook or from our WoC army book. It is not mandatory though, you will still get +1 combat resolution even if your bearer doesn't have a magical banner.
The BSB is a spcial character (exalted hero). He lets all troops within 12" (18" if Large) re-roll failed leadership tests - which is turbo useful! He may also be equipped with a magical banner, but again it's not compulsory and you still get the benfits of a BSB (as well as regular standard) if his banner is mundane.
As for beefing up marauders... To give them armour and shield costs you 2 points, and a str 5 hit will cancel that anyway so probably not worth it. If you do intend to spend points on this unit it's probably better to add bodies rather than gear - it gives them more hit points and means you can afford more casualties per phase before panicking. Run this unit wide and thin to start with, High Elf gun lines may well have bolt throwers which will tear down a whole rank with ease. If you run in horde formation you provide a wider screen and offer less possibilities for through and through hits. You can always reform if you encounter terrain or the enemy.
MON is not so good against gun lines since they often don't roll to hit, they just whip out a template and bust you up. MOT gives you a ward save which cannons and warmachines can do jack about so that's probably better then the nurgle mark vs gun lines. If it's archers rather than "gun line" then MoN becomes more useful.
I can't remember what those items do off the top of my head, but I remember I almost never take the magical armours. The protective things you should be looking at are Blasted Standard; Talisman of BLAH 6+,5+,4+; Collar of Khore; Golden Eye of Tzeentch; Fury of the Blood God, Lichebone Penant; Charmed shield; Dragon helm
Essentially you want to buy items that give your characters survivability and cover Chaos' weaknesses. We suck at range, so items that give you a save in the shooting phase are worthwhile. Magic can rape us, so Magic Resistance is our friend (and spreads to our unit too!). Ward saves are the nuts as not much can touch them, so I'd take ward items every day of the week over improved armour.