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I'm new to Warriors of Chaos (mostly a Beastmen player), so I decided to put a list together to help me figure out what I should buy for them. Let me know what you think:
Core - 935 points:
20 Marauders, Flails, Mark of Khorne - 130
40 Marauders, Flails, Mark of Khorne, Musician, Standard-Bearer - 242
30 Chaos Warriors, Halberds, Shields, Banner of Rage, Musician, Standard-Bearer - 563
Special - 460 points:
10 Chaos Knights, Mark of Khorne, Musician, Standard-Bearer - 460
Rare - 260 points:
2 x Chaos Warshrine - 260 points
Heroes - 370 points:
Exalted Hero, BSB, Mark of Khorne, Shield, Sword of Might, Talisman of Endurance - 205
Exalted Hero, Shield, Chaos Runesword - 165
Lords - 375 points:
Sorcerer Lord, Conjoined Homonculus, Enchanted Shield, L4 Wizard, Power Familiar, Talisman of Preservation - 375
Grand Total: 2,400 points
The basic strategy I'm looking at is that the Sorcerer Lords hang out in the unit of Chaos Warriors along with an Exalted Hero (which will have the option of being a 5-wide, 6-wide, 8-wide, or even 10-wide while still being fully ranked up), and the BSB camps out with the big unit of Marauders, who then run at the first important enemy unit and try to murder it with 40+ S5 hits. Meanwhile, the Warshrines buff any units likely to be engaged in combat/shot at, and the Knights help me eliminate any annoying targets like solo Mages and war machines and stuff like that.
It's still in a rather preliminary phase, so any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!
Last edited by rothgar13; June 15th, 2011 at 04:33.
I'll give you my novice bits, then the experts will come in and show you the way.
- We really don't use champions in chaos unless they're protecting a sorcerer. Save the points and use them elsewhere.
- Warrior units are typically smaller and people like to give them shields even with halbs for the armor save against shooting. Just helps them get across the field without losing anyone.
As for the rest, the more experience folks will come and and give their opinion. BTW, is your L4 shadows?
L4 is up in the air for the most part. I could make an argument for Death, Heavens, or Shadows, depending on who I'm squaring up against.
As for Champions and Warriors, that's definitely something to consider. I can actually grab Shields with the points I save on Champs, which is pretty neat.
I'm going to go through the common stuff here ...MoT here for the ward save boost, you can't pass that up. Instead of a 4+ he's 3+ on the ward save front.Chaos Lord, Dragonhelm, Ogre Blade, Shield, Talisman of Preservation - 315Everyone says to use the enchanted shield for the L4 to give him some extra protection. Also, someone has to bring the puppet ... why not this guy?Sorcerer Lord, L4 Wizard, Necrotic Phylactery - 280
Charmed shield on your level 4, is hands down the absolut best 5 points you'll ever spend.
30 chaos warriors in 1 unit is overkill, you are putting too many eggs in 1 basket.
Chaos warriors have alot of attacks, which wont aid you putting them in units that big (1 support vs 3 in front)
instead run them 6 wide in units of 12 or 18 (that's what I've had most success with)
remember we do not win combat with ranks and standards.. we win combat because warriors of chaos does a horrendious amount of damage in cc.
I'd suggest splitting your warriors up into 2 units. (try to experiment alittle) make a unit as suggested by Blackheart with Halberds and shield. The second i'd suggest would be a unit with mark of khorne and addition handweapons <-- ( see the pattern, 4 attacks pr. model infront vs. 1 support attack) to add insult to injury, get "Favour of the gods" on one of your heroes and place him in this unit (with the +1A from one of the warshrines you'll have a unit of chaos warrior with 5 str 4 attacks each)
As a general rule of thumb, we "Usually" run 3 diffrent setups of chaos warriors, either 6 wide -3 deep, or 6 wide 2 deep (small unit) or, 5x3, running them in larger units aint recommended. (point sink)
The 3 most common setups are:
1: )Swizz army knife (additional handweapons + mark of khorne) These guys will demolish most T3 horde units, as they will simply have so many attacks your opponent will be shocked most of the time
2: )The Meat Cleaver: Halberds + Shield again Khorne will give you 3str 5 attacks pr. warrior, while giving you a 3+ AS while rushing across the field searching for combat.
3: )Iron Man: Handweapon/Shield Mark of Tzeentch. These are the guys who just refuses to die. 3+ AS and a 5+ Parry save in CC will make almost anything stop for a few rounds.
(experiment yourself with diffrent banners, and equipment untill you find what suits you the best.)
10 chaos knights.. Again, LOTS of points in 1 basket. as Blackheart said, we dont need champions, save the points. remember chaos knights have multiple attacks, putting them in 2 ranks will negate half of your attacks from the 2nd rank
Front rank have 2str 5 attacks (3 if khorne) and dont forget your horsies are str4 aswell.. that's 4 attacks pr. knight infront vs 1 support. split your unit up into two, or decrease the amount of knights and spend the points saved elsewhere.
Finally, replace the Flails on your marauders with Great weapons. chances are, you wont decemate your opponents unit first turn with your marauders, so you might aswell give them great weapon. (str 5 first rounds only, vs str5 ALL the time) ofc, you will strike last, but your opponent REALLY have to make a crapload of casaulties before you start loosing attacks back at him, take advantage of having a high number of marauders and rely on Great weapons. Flails on marauders are generally only used on either marauder horsemen or smaller units of marauders.
wont comment on you'r characters. It's a matter of taste really, and we should all experiment and find out what we each prefeer =)
Quote Lord Borak
Now now lads. This is a forum about grown men playing with toy soldiers. Lets be adults please.
Good point on the Charmed Shield - will take. I'm not seeing MoT for my Chaos Lord, though - he's going to be traveling in the Chaos Warriors unit, so a 2+/4++ should be plenty, especially when it's as offensively gifted as it is (6 attacks at WS 8, S 7), so I'd rather spend my points keeping that Sorc Lord safe.
12 Warriors in one unit just sounds like too few, especially against the armies I regularly face (Ogres, O&G, Brets), since they can chop through armor fairly easily, and their units tend to be biggish (I see Ogres in Horde formation more often than not). That said, I'm definitely in favor of the Meat Cleaver setup for them regardless *nods*.
I can definitely see myself running 2 units of 5 Knights instead of 1 unit of 10, though I'm kind of undecided on the Marauders (one of the big things they get that's better than units of other armies is their initiative bonus, and I'll be throwing up to 40 WS 4 S 5 attacks on T1 - it should mash most things it runs into).
Last edited by rothgar13; June 13th, 2011 at 04:19.
Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the feedback so far.
Also, I made some tweaks based on the advice given here. As you can see, I'm sitting on 10 points at the moment, so any advice as to what to do with 'em would be welcome. I'm hoping to test this army out tomorrow, see how it goes.
Hey, i think the points on your chaos lord is wrong, it seems to be almost closer to 415 points atm and it has too much Gear as well. Tally pres + ogre blade is 105 already man, So you'll need to drop one of the items and the Dragonhelm to fit it all in. I'd suggest putting him on a Barbed mount with Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Halberd, will give him 2+/3++, 5 str 6 attks and move 7. That'll free up some points for your Sorc Lord, Make him lvl 4, charmed, blood. Total cost for lords will be 597, under the 600 max, and you'll have a really reliable caster and a good char hunter.
Also, again, drop the warrior unit down to two of 12/15/18 (depending on personal preference) and possibly give one mark of Tzeentch/ shields for a 5++ ward in combat, cause you seem like you need an anvil unit for your opponents to break against before you sweep them away. If you need the extra points, drop some of your 'rauders down, to 40
Last edited by tanfew; June 13th, 2011 at 11:00.
I assume Morgan Freeman is the voice of the Emperor.
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Chaos warriors 12-18 in size, as previously noted.
I prefer GWs on Marauders and probably a few less, 36 in 6x6 formation is decent. Running this as a horde is unwieldy and you never get all 10 in to fight so you're better off with ranks. This is how marauders take out monsters.
A combat lord and a sorcerer lord is a stretch at this size game. Ideally your sorc lord should be tooled to the max and that will take him well over 300 points, leaving not much for a choppy lord. Also (and there's a thread on this in the main WoC forum) it's thought that our Lords are overkill, simply because our heroes are as tough as most other races' lord choice(s). I'd probably axe the Chaos Lord altogether and just tool up my wizard. The build I played this weekend was:
Sorc Lord: Lv 4 (shadow), Charmed Shield, Talisman of Pres (4+), Dispel Scroll, Biting Blade and Conjoined Homunculus [370 pts]
Basically the biting blade was because it's so cheap for us and I had 5 points over.
The rest is a reasonably standard build. If I'm playing Tzeentch magic then I switch the dispel scroll for the puppet (coz Pandaemonium is awesome) and wouldn't take the homunculus.
Your BSB I think needs work. Sword of might is no value whatsoever, you get the same effect with a halberd and save a tonne of points. Definitely grab him a shield for the extra armour. I like to run my BSB with MoT, Collar of Khorne, Dragon Helm, Ironcurse Icon, Halberd and Shield [194 pts] - this makes him very durable and also provides a lot of support for the unit he's bunkered in. I definitely prefer MoT on my characters; they are choppy enough as they are without frenzy, but you have a lot of points invested in them (compared to other races) so protect them as much as possible!
If you really want frenzy then stick the Banner of Rage on the unit he's in, so that it affects everyone. That's pretty good actually because is means you can play Tzeentch warriors (or Nurgle, rarely, but never Slaanesh) and still be frenzied.
I don't rate having two warshrines unless you're playing with chosen and favour. A souped up Chosen deathstar is, arguably, the best unit in the game. But random bonuses on not-so-elite units is fun but not worth the points of a warshrine. As combat units they're very durable (and make good screens) but you have to use them wisely otherwise they will just lose to static combat resolution (ranks and banners) and end up breaking.
Two units of knights is nice, but I've not been that impressed with them. Again they're durable, but they actually don't dish out all that much damage as they have limited attacks so one unlucky round and you lose to static combat res. In fact there was an analysis on here a while back that compared them point for point and concluded that two chariots was nearly always better than a unit of knights. However they are maneuverable and are perceived as a threat even when they perhaps aren't. One option to strengthen knights is again to go with the rage banner. This gives the UNIT frenzy, as opposed to the knights themselves, so the horses will also benefit from the extra attack. At 5 attacks per model the unit becomes a HUGE threat. In fact give them MoT and throw in the BSB build above (mounted on barded steed) and now you have a 6 strong unit of mounted death with 32 attacks on a great initiative, with a 5+ ward save vs warmachines and 4+ ward save vs. magic. You could even throw in Stream of Corruption on the BSB to give yourself an extra option for wounds in close combat to offset static resolution.
I quite like this option actually. The reason being that you sink a lot of points into characters but they don't see a lot of action since they're so slow to cross the field. So having a fast and maneuverable hero is a nice idea and you can maximise your use from him.
Dogs are handy too for screening, baiting, setting off goblin fanatics and delaying deployment.
Overall I'd make the following changes:
Drop the CWs to 18, Marauders to 36, one unit of knights, a warshrine and the chaos lord.
Add: toys for two main characters; a hellcannon (or two if you can!); Maybe some marauder horsemen (10-15 with MoK, light armour, flails); another threatening infantry unit (Chosen, Trolls, DrOgres); dogs (2 or 3 x 5)
Well, feedback time from my first go at it.
The Horde of Marauders worked out amazingly well - those extra attacks were actually enough to wipe units off the board, netting me overrun moves instead of pursuit moves. I've found that it really doesn't matter whether you get your entire Horde in base contact or not, what you want is attacks at 3 deep - it actually makes Flails worthwhile when you get THAT many attacks on T1. I'm keeping the Horde.
2 units of 5 Chaos Knights worked out very poorly - they just didn't have the manpower to survive artillery shooting and still be effective in combat. I'm putting them back in a unit of 10.
My Chaos Warriors took heavy casualties between shooting and lots of CC, but were still effective in combat because I ran 30 of them. I think that unit is staying as-is, though that of course is not set in stone.
The second Chaos Warshrine actually worked out pretty well - I got to slap on +1 A on multiple units (including the Marauders - they basically massacred everything they touched), and they did some damage when they charged into combat (yes, I actually charged into combat with Warshrines, and they did damage).
Also, ChaosLordUK, your description of what Banner of Rage does to Chaos Knights doesn't really jive with how Frenzy is described for normal cavalry in the Warhammer rulebook.
I'm definitely seeing that the Chaos Lord seems to be overkill, though - I'm probably downgrading him to an Exalted Hero and tooling up the Sorc Lord instead.