<3000 Tzeentch HELP!!! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Tzeentch HELP!!!

    Ok so i posted this army a while back, and its gone through a hoard of remolding but i got to the point where i was dam happy with it..... well until i realize i forgot to add points for something and found i was over so had to ditch a bunch of things D= not cool but life goes on! Just want people to look at this list again, see if there is any thing i can do to it, what units i have im happy with right now, though im wondering weather altering to the list such as chopping up my two small units of warriors to make a 24 man strong halberd/shield unit and then stick my sorcerer on a disk or how i can give more protection to my knights without changing my list to much! 2 things i will add here though is
    1. the lord stays the same, cause the build works and for fluff reasons

    -3000-Wadey’s Eternal Legion-2996-

    - Wadey, Prince of Eternity-
    Chaos Lord 370
    Tzeentch, Demonic Mount, Talisman of Preservation, Rune Sword, Charmed Shield

    -Ther’on, ward of the Gods-
    Exalted Hero 179
    Mark of Tzeentch, Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Halberd, Collar of Khorne

    -Nar’gul, Captain of the eternal legion-
    Exalted Hero 159
    Mark of Tzeentch, Additional Hand Weapon, Book of Secrets, Dragon Helm

    -Lucien, Seer of fates-
    Chaos Sorceror 175
    Mark of Tzeentch, Level 2, Infernal Puppet

    22 Chaos Warriors 430 (Ther'on+Nar'gul)
    Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standard bearer, Blasted Standard

    15 Chaos Warriors 282
    Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer

    14 Chaos Warriors 266 (Lucien)
    Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer

    10 Chaos Knights 450 (Wadey)
    Tzeentch, Musician, Standard Bearer

    5 Chaos Knights 275
    Tzeentch, Lances, Standard Bearer, The banner of eternal flame

    -The scourge of Carpathia-
    Hellcannon 205

    -The sorrow of Moldavia-
    Hellcannon 205

    So yea guys there it is, currently have Wadey, Nar'gul, 5 Knights, 15 Warriors (with 5 more knights on the way this week) so getting there slowly! Any thing to add though will be good, Thanks =D

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  3. #2
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
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    Hey dude. Over all the list looks fine. I think the characters could do with some tweaking though.

    Ther'on. Does he need that shield? He can't use it in combat and he's not going to be picked out by shooting. You'd be better off giving him the Dragon helm or something so he has the +1 save whilst still being able to use his halberd. As it stands that shield is just 5pts wasted.

    Nar'gul. Do you really need this guy? He doesn't add a lot to your list. He doesn't stop people challenging your BSB as he's not built for challenges. If you have to keep him then I would..... Swap the Additional hand weapon and grabbing a shield will make this dude a lot less likely to die while only loosing 1 attack. Maybe completely drop the BoS and grab him a decent Ward. This way he can take challenges aimed at killing the BSB.

    Lucien. Only having 2 spells means you're unlikely to cast either unless you 6 dice one. I think you'd be better off ditching the Level 2 upgrade and replacing it with the 3rd eye of tzeentch.

    Knights..... These guys are screaming SHOOT ME! I would do some swapping around with Items. I'd give these guys the Blasted standard as any decent opponent will see them as the most threat. You can still protect the Warriors by giving one of the Exalteds the Iron Curse Icon. I'd also consider grabbing some Magic resistance on your Lord to keep these guys alive too.... It doesn't have to be much, just MR1 or 2 or something.

  4. #3
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
    inside your head
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    Hmmm... you say you liked the last iteration of the list? Could we perhaps see that one, even though it's over, and maybe we could help you trim some of the fat off of it? It might be better to get advice at two stages (tear-down and rebuild) rather than just one. I usually don't fret over points costs until the very last unit is added in, then I tally everything up. Normally I'm about 100-200pts over, and then I go back through and make cuts. It helps to tighten the list up, because making those hard decisions is what trims out the excess and leaves you with the solid core of your army.

    At this point, I'm seeing a lot of stuff in the list that I personally don't like:

    Chaos Lord rather than a Sorc Lord- not only are Chaos Lords more pricey than their spell-tossing counterparts, but you're also foregoing very useful Lore opportunities, namely Heavens and Shadow. If you do keep this guy, ditch his Daemonic Mount- it's not worth the extra Chaos Knight that it costs over a regular Barded Steed. Go to a Barded Steed for the +2 armor save, and then pick up another Knight in that regiment, or drop a Knight and bump your 5 man unit to something a bit more useful.

    Dual Exalteds - again, our Characters are WAYYY too good for what they do. And that makes them cost WAYYYY too much for the role. Especially our dedicated Combat guys. Our Warriors do more than enough to chew through enemy regiments, why do you feel the need to help them out with 3-4 extra attacks (by the time you replace that warrior in the front rank, it's more like 1-2 extra attacks)? You could pick up Casters, and effect entire regiments and cover our weaknesses, or you could just field MORE MODELS on the table. Personally, I'd combine your BSB, Book of Secrets, and 3rd Eye into one solid model.

    HUGE Warrior regiment - I know that you're going for an Anvil-type regiment, but with MoT, you don't need anvils, you need hammers. Why are you fielding so many of these guys? It's obvious that you're going for a 6x4 formation, but have you ever considered dropping them down to a 6x3 formation and saving yourself some points? It's bad enough that we're paying for a massive WS and 2A, but it's even worse when we almost must include a 3rd rank to just stand around and pick their noses in combat. The thought of adding a 4th rank just to do the same thing is simply depressing. I know that a lot of people on the boards like regiments of 20-24 models, but I honestly can't see why. Yeah, we're going to have problems with Steadfast enemy regiments. But if we go for tons of ranks, we're going to have problems with "swarming", where we don't have enough regiments to get into combat with enough meaningful enemies. Your Knights can pick their combats to an extent, but these guys are going to get hit in the face with a Hellpit, or 50 Skeletons, and just grind to a halt all game. Big units need damage capability, or they need to rely on their MoT and Armor to allow them to go smaller. Adding a dedicated unit of Knights "for flanking" is wasteful- you're now letting those 50 Skeletons dictate the use of over 500pts of resources.
    The 6 models that you save could be used to bump your other two regiments up to units of 18 as well, giving you multiple blocks of equal sized units with enough frontage and ranks to actually deal some damage.

    10-man Chaos Knights, no Ward- Lord Borak already covered this, but these guys should be carrying a Blasted Banner with them.

    5 man "afterthought" Chaos Knights - with a 10 man regiment running amok on the field, and 3 hefty regiments of Warriors, what do you anticipate these guys doing? Or I should say, what role do they fulfill in your strategy? They look pretty, they hit like a ton of bricks on paper, but they're rarely worth it on the table. They don't deal as much damage as an equivalently priced block of Warriors or Marauders, they represent fewer wounds (because even with the Armor multiplier, there are too many things that ignore it or modify it), and they're paying for a lot of mobility that we don't really use these days. If you're playing truly mobile- truly tactical games with lots of distance covered- then I commend you and your playgroup. Since 8th has put such a focus on large regiments and nerfed cavalry so fiercely, the game has deteriorated to a "battle line" situation, where most of the 'maneuvering' is the careful jostling of regiments within the line so that enemies can't catch your flanks, and you can maximize your fields of vision. To that end, I'd rather have more bodies "in the line" so to speak, than have a regiment of mavericks out riding in front of the enemy guns by themselves.

    Mono-Tzeentch - This is a scary prospect. I've done a lot of talking about units getting pinned against enemies, and how large enemy armies typically are compared to our far more elite phalanx of Warriors. You're going mono-tzeentch, all-plate, dual Hellcannon, character heavy. Your army is the smallest of the small, which isn't bad, but it's dangerous. You can't afford to be slow, and you can't afford to get hung up in prolonged combats against armies like Tomb Kings or Goblins, or even Empire. Your enemy is going to be seeking to stall your elite troops and pin them in place, then send in wave after wave of 'mooks' to grind you down- often flanking you on one or multiple sides. That's if you let yourself get pinned in place. Your cannons are pretty good for dealing lots of damage, and so is that big block of Knights, but I'd be looking to get a Banner of Rage somewhere in that list, and maybe some MoK Halberds. You're also going to have trouble with High-Toughness models like Monsters, because you've capped your army at S5. Either come up with a dedicated "Monster Killer", or find a reliable way to bring their stats down to a level where you can deal with them.

    I used to run a Mono-tzeentch army that was actually very similar to this one, and I began steadily leaning towards more and more Khorne and Un-marked regiments, both to save points and to make sure that my list didn't run into the problems that I've pointed out. Your list isn't weak, I just don't think that it's necessarily the optimal build. I do like that you've taken the time to name your characters and cannons, and you've probably at least thought up some sort of backstory for the army. But remember- you can always paint every model in the army the same, and just denote their marks with banners or the trim on their bases, and say that they all follow Tzeentch. Maybe those Khorne guys aren't really Khorne, they were just 'gifted' with the ability to see a short distance into the future, or move that much faster, letting them make an extra attack in the span of time that it takes most Warriors to make just 2. You can make beautiful themed armies without crippling your actual list, just apply a little extra imagination.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  5. #4
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    I also am in the process of building a Mono-Tzeentch WoC Army, with two Hell Cannons, but like the good Captain says, I am going with more sorcerers especially for SoM (Tzeentch Marked Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore w Daemon Pact) and 2-4 Sorcerers to grab those Fulcrums (plus a nice unit of 38 Pink Horrors with full command including a Herald for added magical might). For the rest they are a large unit of Chaos Warriors w/ MoT and Blasted Banner, a smaller Marauder unit, skirmisher unit of 10 Marauder Horsemen (used to screen my Knights), 15 Chaos Hounds and 15 Chaos Knights. Figure the hell cannons can shoot at monsters and/or wizards, while the Warriors can hit one flank, Hounds hit the other flank and my knights (and any monsters like a Cockatrice) hit the center. Sorcerer Lord is Monster killer and the other sorcerers and Pink Horrors start shooting everything that moves with their beefed up spells. I might reverse the roles of Knights and Warriors depending upon my opponent's army, but I plan to hit him/her with force of arms and magic that will crush most other 3,000 Pt armies(SoM Pacts allow for the unit of Pink Horrors and an extra character, and a Herald on a Tzeentch Disk adds a lot of magical power and flame attacks).

    4-6 Arcane Fulcrums (2-3 per side winner is who takes the most by the end of game) and with these magical casters, I will have a nice advantage over most armies, if not all. Add in i am also building a Tzeentch only Demon Army, and i will have two nice armies to play with (likely will go Vampire Pact with the Demon army for the cheap undead units). Kiaros Fateweaver on top of a Fulcrum should scare anyone ;-)

    So I'd pretty much follow what CaptainSarathai says to do - very sound advice!


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