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2500 pt WoC Elite and Armored

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1K views 17 replies 6 participants last post by  TypeSet1 
#1 · (Edited)
Lord

Sorcerer Lord 405pts
x1
Talisman of Preservation
Enchanted Shield
Infernal Puppet
Biting Blade
Conjoined Homonculus
Bloodcurdling Roar
Shadow

Hero

Exalted Hero 199pts
1x
Armor of Morrslieb
Obsidian Trinket
Halberd
BSB
MoT

Festus, The Leechlord 185pts

Core


Chaos Warriors 454pts *BSB In Here*
x24
Hand Weapons
Shields
Rapturous Standard
Full Command
MoT

Chaos Warriors 358 pts*Festus In Here*
x18
Hand Weapons
Banner of Eternal Flame
Full Command
AHW
MoK

Chaos Warhounds 30pts
x5
Chaos Warhounds 30pts
x5


Special

Chosen 485 pts *Sorcerer Lord in Here*
x18
Halberds
Shields
Wailing Banner
Full Command
Favor of the Gods
MoT

Rare

Chaos Warshrine 150pts
x1
MoT

Hellcannon 205pts
1x

2496 pts

The basic idea here is to get into combat, and slaughter whatever gets in your way, haha. The thought of having khorne chaos warriors with AHW, poison/flaming attacks
just made me smile. 4 S4 attacks each wounding on 6s with 4+ armor save and a 5+ regeneration save is sweet. The other unit of warriors is for tying down the enemy in combat until I can get a flank charge with either the chosen or the khorne warriors. The warhounds are there because I couldn't find a way to fill points, honestly never have much luck with them, we'll see how it goes. Not much else to say other than, what were they thinking when they made Festus? sure he can't take much punishment...but man can he boost a unit to dish out major amounts of it! anyways! I'm open to hear any suggestions that might make the list better or possibly more effective. Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
I like this list, it's very elite, but boy in CC it will rip most opponents apart! The hounds will be worth it alone in screening.

The only changes I'd make would be on the Lord:
Swap enchanted for charmed shield - will probably save him from the 1st wound miscasting.
Instead of Roar, grab Stream, since you can use it CC there is no chance of it being wasted.
 
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#4 ·
oh I didn't even catch that I had the MoT on the sorcerer, my mistake. The problem is I face DE alot and the S1 hits from bloodcurdling roar are really helpful against the dreadlord with that crazy ward save pendant. Then again most of my friends play elves so with a S3 breath weapon against T3 elves it might be better.
 
#5 ·
AHW's on Chaos Warriors are mathematically inferior to Halberds in virtually every relevant situation (with the exceptions of Zombies and Skinks, who frankly aren't problem matchups) - I would make that switch. I can understand the reasoning behind the elite theme, but I have to add the disclaimer that sheer weight of numbers will beat you - these units just can't stand up to a Horde formation of solid troops (like Savage Orc Big 'Un's, Gors with the Beast Banner, Saurus...) because there's not enough Wounds to go around, and those other guys can fight back.
 
#6 ·
Is it really worth the extra strength to take the halberds instead? I mean against shooting having the shield for increased armor is nice, but losing out on 6 attacks kind of defeats the whole purpose of the strategy. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the comment, I'm just not 100% sure why halberds are better in this case. Those 6 attacks I'm losing could be possible 6's which will automatically wound. Am I missing out on something? haha
 
#7 ·
The thing about halberds is they get a double bonus both in reducing armor saves and in wounds. Str.5 is ideal against anything from T3 to T6 [most troops] - only brettonia is the exception to this.
 
#8 ·
I'm gonna try both halberds and ahw and see which works better. Someone earlier in the post mentioned coming across big horde units...if I am outmatched purely because of numbers, should I invest in a second hellcannon, I figured having shadow magic to reduce stats on units would be enough to deal with large blocks. maybe Im wrong. Any thoughts on this? I don't really wanna use Marauders for this list..trying to stick to the theme haha
 
#9 ·
I'm gonna try both halberds and ahw and see which works better. Someone earlier in the post mentioned coming across big horde units...if I am outmatched purely because of numbers, should I invest in a second hellcannon, I figured having shadow magic to reduce stats on units would be enough to deal with large blocks. maybe Im wrong. Any thoughts on this? I don't really wanna use Marauders for this list..trying to stick to the theme haha
 
#10 ·
Just to help you decide whether to use AHW or halberds here's a couple of quick statisically facts: (lets say you are fighting high elf spearmen and saurus warriors, just to take an example)

Warrior formation 6x3 with MoK (without champion)

Halberds
against spearmen: 24 attacks, 16 hits, 13.33 wounds, no saves
against saurus warriors: 24 attacks, 16 hits, 10.67 wounds, 8.89 after saves

AHW
against spearmen: 30 attacks, 20 hits, 13.33 wounds, 11.11 after saves (12.5 kills with poison!)
against saurus warriors: 30 attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds, 6.66 after saves (8.33 kills with poison!)

This is just doing the simple math of what will statistically happen, and as you see halberds have a higher kill score in almost any case (the only exception is if you fight T2 or worse, which is unlikely). The main reason is that not only do they wound more easily, they also makes your opponents armor save worse! On warriors, halberds are always a better choice unless you can get a withering hex or curse of the leper off. Even then, AHW ain't much better.
 
#11 ·
Alright so bearing in mind the comments above I broke down and I'm giving the khorne warriors the halberds haha, I also gave them shields, not sure if shields are worth the points here, I had to drop biting blade, It seems worth it for an extra point to armor save. for some reason I thought halberds cost 2 points per model which was kind of swaying AHW as the better choice...don't ask me how I messed that one up. Ultimately Halberds are the better choice, so here is the list now:

Lord

Sorcerer Lord 395pts
x1
Talisman of Preservation
Enchanted Shield
Infernal Puppet
Conjoined Homonculus
Bloodcurdling Roar
Shadow

Hero

Exalted Hero 199pts
1x
Armor of Morrslieb
Obsidian Trinket
Halberd
BSB
MoT

Festus, The Leechlord 185pts

Core


Chaos Warriors 454pts *BSB In Here*
x24
Hand Weapons
Shields
Rapturous Standard
Full Command
MoT

Chaos Warriors 376 pts*Festus In Here*
x18
Hand Weapons
Banner of Eternal Flame
Full Command
Halberds
Shields
MoK


Chaos Warhounds 30pts
x5
Chaos Warhounds 30pts
x5

Special

Chosen 485 pts *Sorcerer Lord in Here*
x18
Halberds
Shields
Wailing Banner
Full Command
Favor of the Gods
MoT

Rare

Chaos Warshrine 150pts
x1
MoT

Hellcannon 205pts
1x

2504 Pts
 
#12 ·
Yeah, if Halberds cost +2 points/model it would definitely be a debate.

As for dealing with huge blocks... combo-charging is your friend. You won't break them that way, but you'll at least cause enough casualties to not lose and hopefully grind them down to a more manageable size. Barring that, more conservative formations with Warriors (like sticking to 5 wide) can help.
 
#13 ·
Yes, combo-charging and hex spells are the only way I see myself breaking through hordes. Strength in numbers I've noticed seems to be the theme in warhammer since I started playing. I actually wanted to jump off topic for a second and ask a few question regarding some things. When I last played against my friends Dark Elf army I was told that I can't have more than 1 of the same hex spell in play at a time. (Eg. I cast the withering on a unit of DE Corsairs, then next magic phase I cast the withering again on a unit of DE warriors) is this possible? or am I confused. I also was wondering if sea dragon cloak improves ward saves as well? that's how we've been playing them, but they seem a little too good to be true.
 
#15 ·
Awesome thanks for all the help, I found the rule for the remains in play thing on page 36 of the RB, I get how it works now. I'm pleased to hear the cloak does not stack with ward saves, the elves seemed a lot tougher to take down than I thought they would be.
 
#16 ·
So I played this list against my buddies newly bought, newly improved Ogres Kindom army tonight. The list he took was pretty awesome I have to say. He had 30+ models in his whole army...that's it. The shooting he had proved to be pretty effective..of course I rolled terribly haha, that might have been why I lost 4-5 chosen from shooting on turn 1...anyways I think shadow is the way to go for WoC. I had my block of chosen and tzeentch warriors run into pretty much his whole army, and thanks to the buffs from the eye of the gods table and the hex spells from lore of shadow, I was standing tall against the monstrous ogres. I think I would like to put my sorcerer lord else where, but I'm not sure where, perhaps the tzeentch warriors. If I do end up doing that I'll most likely run them in a 5x5 formation, It should make them tough and sturdy enough to hold out a few rounds. The only thing I found scary about his army were the sheer amount of wounds each ogre had, not to mention the bull charges, and horde ranks, it often made them tough to break. I don't know if I would have won without the lore of shadow...He was using these crazy huge mammoths, and some cavalry that re-rolled to hit and to wound, watch out for the new ogres they seem a lot better. I just had a question I wanted to ask about the chaos warshrine. I read somewhere that you can automatically get the 4+ ward/stubborn roll on turn one, I didn't really understand how it works too well. I know you re roll lots of stuff, but is it really possible?
 
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