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  1. #1
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    Returning to Warhammer - 1,000 point army against Skaven

    Hi. I'm returning to Warhammer after about 20 years out, and loving the changes so far. Played my first game this week and smashed Vampire Counts - I gather that we're pretty strong at lower points levels. I went with this list:

    Festus
    Throgg
    15 Warriors (Festus went in here)
    5 Knights (MoK)
    2 Trolls (Throgg went in here)
    5 Hounds

    My knights killed his Terrorgheist, Throgg vomited his mounted general into a small puddle and the warriors took everything else apart. But anyway next up I'm fighting skaven which is going to a very different proposition. Delighted though I was with both Festus and Throgg's performance, I've dropped them both for my next list, which is:

    Sorcerer lvl 2 (MoT) (goes with Marauders)
    12 Warriors (Musician, Std, AHW)
    40 Marauders (Shields, FC)
    5 Knights (Musician, Std)
    5 Hounds
    Warshrine

    Partly I want to try out new models and strategies, and partly I think I need larger units against the rat men, the Marauder horde especially. Ideally I'd like more warriors and another lvl 1 wizard but you don't get much for 1,000 points.

    My biggest fear is the A bomb, which if it appears I'll rely on a combination of Magic (Flickering Fire of Tzeentch specifically) and my knights to counter. But will jezzails potentially wipe out my knights and warriors given their armour piercingness (ok it's not a proper word). Also, I'm only running one character, and from (hugely outdated) memory, skaven are quite stabby and assinatey (another non-word). Am I setting myself to see a dead general early on?

    My vague plan at this stage is to use the marauder horde to pin down the enemy's most worrying unit, the warriors to kill it, the knights to occupy anything large and nasty, the hounds to occupy anything shooty for at least a turn or two, and the warshrine to trundle around being generally awesome.

    Any help and advice much appreciated.


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  3. #2
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    Welcome back to Fantasy then dude. Aye the new 8th Ed rules have to be the most enjoyable I've ever played

    The first list you used was, unfortunately, illegal. You need 3 Trolls in a unit (you only have two) and you're only allowed 25% of your army as Heroes which means you were over by quite a lot with Festus and Throgg. If you didn't know the Army selection thing in the armour book has completely gone out the window now and you purely use a Percentage System. This one...

    Maximum Lords: 25%. Yup this does mean you can have a Lord below 1000pts if you can fit it into the 25%
    Maximum Heroes: 25%
    Minimum Core: 25%. You can do your 25% of core with one unit if you you'd like. For Warriors that basically means one unit of Chaos Warriors will fill our min Core %.
    Maximum Special: 50%. Note, you can't have more than 3 of the same type in Special until you reach 3000pts
    Maximum Rare: 25%. Note, you can't have more than 2 of the same type in Rare until you reach 3000pts




    As for your new list it looks good. Grab the Sorcerer a Spell Familiar and Favour of the Gods. Favour greatly increases the usefulness of a Shrine and without it a Shrine is very random and, to be honest, not that great. I'd also give the Warriors the Mark of Khorne or the Banner of Rage to turn them into a Blender.

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    89 (x1)

    in general, halberds are better than AHW. and theyll give you an edge if you have to melee anything bigger than a clan rat. rat ogers or aboms. if your just using the marauders as a tar pit, a smaller unit in a 5xwhatever formation with light armor shields and a mot does a great job. then let your knights or your warriors swing in and smash a flank.

    honestly, i think the list looks fairly solid, im not sure what else id change. if anything id concider giving the sorc some extra equipment for survivability. i think id go at it as is, and see what happens. ive only played skaven once and it was my first game. so i wasnt really all that clear on what was going on.

    anyway good luck! have fun

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    Thanks Borak and Shoe.One quick question on halberds: how is it possible to have halberds and shields, which I notice in a lot of lists? I always thought halberds were two handed weapons?Secondly, no idea how I missed that I'm over the character limit in the first list. I realised that I needed to be below 25% in my second list, but somehow ignored the rule before. Might be because the list was originally 1250 points, and I had to quickly drop 250 points or wouldn't have had time for the game. Still would've been illegal though. Also didn't realise that Throgg wouldn't count towards making the troll unit up to the min 3 models. Guess characters don't count towards the limit.Anyway I'll have another look at the list with a view to favour of the Gods. Not sure what to drop though, maybe will de-horde the marauders. I feel that my sorcerer is pretty well protected, what with being in the big unit of marauders? Does he really need something else? Spell familiar would be good though if I can find the points.I'd love to give the warriors MoK (and to take a few more units too tbh), but I really can't see where the points will come from.Thanks again for the help!

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    on your first question about halberds and shields. the shields are mostly there just for the +1 armour against shooting. yes the halberd is a 2h weapon so you cant use the shield in CC at all, but itll help alittle bit to get you there. the rulebook just says....bla bla bla...they sling the unused/unusable equipment across their back...bla bla...

    as for the sorcerer. he has only the 6+ ward save, and in a smaller game like this points for magic gear can be an issue, but... with that list as is i think youve got somewhere around 40 spare points...
    as it stands, a cannonball, lore of death, sniping, or any lore that hits every model in the unit(fire) could take him out real fast. throw a miscast on that list too. the marauders have a champion that can cover for him in the first challenge they encounter, which is great, but hes not gonna survive. a second challenge and your sorcerer is probably dead. a talisman of endurance and a charmed shield are usually plenty for a small game like this. with his mark itd give him a 3+ armour and a 4+ ward with a 2+ to negate the first wound he takes. theres alot of other gear you might like to have on a sorcerer, but with him being your only character, your general no less, survivability i think is the priority. theres also alot of good armour you can toss at him. our selection of magic gear is pretty cool.

    hope that helps!

  7. #6
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    How about something like this? (it doesn't HAVE to be this, this is just my ideas using what you have in your list)


    Sorcerer: MoT, Collar of Khorne, Charmed Shield, Spell Familiar. Favour, Level 2. [190]

    12 Warriors: Halberds, Std & musician, Banner of Rage, MoT [265]
    34 Marauders: Great Weapons, Std & Musician. [182]

    5 Knights: Khorne [230]
    Shrine [130]



    Sorcerer:
    This guy has Magic resistance 2 so if anyone targets him with Magic he'll get 3+ Ward save against it. Or his unit will get +2 Ward Vs spells. He has a 3+ Sv, a 5+ Ward and he ignores the first 'hit' on a 2+. On top of that he knows 3 spells at +3 to cast

    Warriors:
    These guys maybe small but they'll blend what ever they hit. There wasn't the points for Shields AND MoT so It was a toss up between +1 save for shields or a 6+ Ward.............. The Ward won.

    Marauders:
    Just because you can Horde them doesn't mean you should all ways do it. Remember you can reform during the game. Having a unit with lots of ranks is sometimes very handy indeed. You could Run them as Horde or a unit of 6x5 (and a bit) what ever takes your fancy at the time

    Knights:
    For the same Price as a Std & Musician you can grab the Ark of Khorne. That's 6 extra attacks!!

    Shrine:
    Now your Sorcerer has favour this guy will be much more effective. Who ever you want your Shrine to bless simply start the game with or move him into a unit and bless them until you get the desired result. Then run him back some place safe or somewhere that can use his Magic Resistance.

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    i like boraks list. the sorcerer is great and the core is solid. beware of challenges, as the sorcerer is the only one in the list that can accept. also im allways concerned about units with frenzy running off and charging when i dont want them to. im probably over reacting to a possibility, but its something to watch out for.

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    Thanks for the fantastic help again guys.

    I like your list Borak, I'm worried I might miss the hounds, but I still think I'll go with it. My hounds just got in the way in my last game anyway, but I'll be ruing this moment when I look over my army wanting something to harry a bunch of Jezzails!

    I can see the logic in cutting the number of marauders slightly, but I surprised at the idea of giving them great weapons instead of shields. My understanding is that MoT + shield is basically a cheap 5+ ward save, is that right? Dropping that to no armour and a 6+ ward save, and always striking last makes to worry for their surivability, but I suppose at the same time I'm gaining frenzied knights and a whole lot of other stuff.

    What do you think about MoN for the Knights instead of MoT?

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    with that army list, the dogs are just doing the same job as the knights, just not as well. theyd also help with depolyment, but i dont think itll be that big a deal.
    as for the marauders, a mot and a shield is a 5+ parry save. not quite a ward save. they only get it when fighting in melee to the front. if they get flanked, too bad. it also doesnt work for shooting. marauders with light armour, shields, and a mot make a good tar pit unit if you form small but deep ranks, however they are more expensive, and not quite as effective as GW marauders. GW marauders are just a really nice, really cheap wrecking ball. they might take a lot of wounds, but what they dish out will more than make up for it. with a Mark of Khorne, you can make sure they get there without panic and get a bunch of extra attacks in too.

    the knights! when your looking at MoN and MoT in terms of effectiveness you need to do alittle math. a -1 to be hit is mathematically the same as a +1 to your ward save. mark of nurgle can be better than mark of tzeentch in the occasion that it drops the respective units to hit roll to the point that it cant actualy shoot. ie. enemy unit has a bs3, they moved (-1) and are shooting through soft cover(-1) now they need a 6+ to hit. if you have a mark of nurgle, they cant shoot you at all, which makes it better, in this sense, than MoT. in melee it reduces the units WS by 1, but only for incoming attacks(it doesnt help you hit back) this means that it only really helps if the unit attacking you has a ws3 or a ws of one point higher than your own. since to hit rolls in melee cant be better than 3+ or worse than 5+, and you only reduce an enemies to hit roll if you are more than twice that units ws, its only effective in these situations. where as a +1 ward save wins out. against magical attacks MoN does nothing. considering all this i almost always take a mark of tzeentch. unless the unit already has a regen save or something that is; i like to run a unit of nurgal warriors, with halberds, a banner of rage, and festus leading the unit.

    otherwise MoN is just for flavor.

  11. #10
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    I like your list Borak, I'm worried I might miss the hounds, but I still think I'll go with it. My hounds just got in the way in my last game anyway, but I'll be ruing this moment when I look over my army wanting something to harry a bunch of Jezzails!

    Oops. I forgot to add in hounds! If you want to add them in just make the Marauder unit smaller. If you do though there is little point in doing the Marauders as a Horde.

    I can see the logic in cutting the number of marauders slightly, but I surprised at the idea of giving them great weapons instead of shields. My understanding is that MoT + shield is basically a cheap 5+ ward save, is that right? Dropping that to no armour and a 6+ ward save, and always striking last makes to worry for their surivability, but I suppose at the same time I'm gaining frenzied knights and a whole lot of other stuff.

    The Sword n Shield 5+ is very handy but my units NEVER impressed me. They just stood around and died waiting for something to help them out. I gave them Great weapons and suddenly the can actually cause some pain all by themselves. Survivability isn't that important when you have the step up rule and lots of friends. Most people would LOVE a unit that has a Ws4, Str5, 6+ward model for 5pts.

    My Units are 36 strong and ranked up as a 6x6 unit. They have lots of ranks to beat enemy steadfast, which is what I want them for, and 12 str5 attacks isn't to be sniffed at in combat. A unit with a narrow frontage like this isn't worth giving the Mark of Khorne and Tzeentch keeps the unit around longer.

    What do you think about MoN for the Knights instead of MoT?

    Yup, Shoe said it all

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