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Hey guys, Ive got 2 lists running in my head but just can't decide can anyone give me some advice:
1 Sorcerrer Lord Lore of Shadow Barded Chaos Steed Level 4 wizard Infernal Puppet Talisman of Persevation Charmed Shield Conjoined Homonculus 1 Exalted Hero Mark of Tzeetch Barded Chaos Steed Battle Standard Bearer Halberd Shield Armour of Destiny 5 Merauder Horsemen Mark of Slaanesh Throwing Axes Shields Muscician Standard 18 Chaos Warriors Shields Mark of Tzeentch Standard Muscician Rapturous Standard 18 Chaos Warriors Mark of Khorne Halberd Shields Standard Muscician 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Knights Mark of Nurgle Muscician Standard Banner of Rage 1 Hellcannon 3 Chaos Dwarfs
1 Sorcerrer Lord Lore of Shadow Level 4 Talisman of Persevation Infernal Puppet Conjoined Homunculus Charmed Shield 1 Exalted Hero BSB Mark of Tzeentch Armour of Destiny Shield Halberd Chaos Steed 18 Chaos Warriors Mark Of Tzeentch Shields Muscician Banner Raptourous Standard 18 Chaos Warrirors Halberds Shields Muscician Banner 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne 5 Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne 1 Hellcannon 3 Chaos Dwarfs
All advice is welcome
I prefer list 2 for a tourny but would drop a unit of knights and get a big fat maurader block to anchor my army around maybe in a 5x8 formation to negate horde steadfast. I'm not a big fan of knights in general though but they may work for you.
What other models have you got to play with?
I've got pretty erverything converted and ready, saddly not painted yet exept for all plate units
I like the second list as well, and I have to agree that a big block of great weapon marauders would give either list a lot more striking power. Two unit's of knight's feels like a little much, and sticking your BSB in a unit of bait-able knight's might not be such a good idea, remember that as soon as your BSB flee's for any reason, he's gone for good automatically destroyed. For this reason I would move him into a warrior unit, or make the knight unit more robust by adding in an additional model, and a magic standard, musician as well.
If you decide to keep the BSB in the knight's, then drop the rapturous standard from the tzeentch warriors and just give them lichebone pennant or blasted standard for extra defense. I would also advise giving the other warrior unit banner of rage for extra attacks.
id keep the first list but make a few small changes.
drop the MoN from the knights(unless its a flavor/models painted that way thing) and either go with MoT or dont give them a mark at all. maybe try to make em a unit of 6
give those khorne warriors a flaming banner.
drop the horse off the sorc lord and bunker him with the tzeentch warriors.
throwing axes on 5 horsemen arnt going to have much effect. with a range of only 6 inches and only 5 shots... your not likely to cause even 1 wound on most opponents.
if you need points for changes, drop a unit of dogs... the dogs and marauder horsemen are gonna be running pretty much the same job, so 3 units doing it is more than adequate.
Merauders never really appealed to me thats why they're missing in these lists. I've had some bad experiances with Ld7 beserk rage tests.
@ Shoe maybe 2 units of Dags is indeed overkill I'll see what it free's up.
I'll defenatly going to drop the horse on the mage and bunker him down in a warrior unit. The only real reason I've putted him on a horse whas that I've had some devestating experiances with the Threaded 13th (3 guys in my group play skaven).
both lists are so identical, they share the same flaws:
Characters: Both are a big heavy on upgrades. I like to run mine at a bare-bones approach. For the mage I would ditch everything but the arcane item choice. The BSB I like to run with the collar of khorne and ironcurse icon, to make the knights uber tough.
@ Noma I think you are mistaken, i believe the BSB, like normal standards, collapse if the unit breaks for any reason, not flee. IE i think he can elect to flee as a charge reaction and not dissipear.
Core: I would rather see 1 unit of 25+ warriors than 2 units of 18ish. One direct hit with a strong template weapon will make either of these units very fragile in combat, so higher numbers are a must. in a tournament setting neither of these units will be able to deal with the uber deathstar units/monsters/spells you will see.
Marauder Horsemen are a waste.
I mark my knights with MoT. This gives them a 6++ vs attacks, and with the BSB present they get 5++ vs war machines and a 4++ vs Spells, and their natural 1+ vs normal shooting. I recently ran a unit of 12 with a BSB and chaos lord inside and it took a charge from a horde of black orcs w/ gweps and destroyed the blorcs in just 2 rounds of combat. The unit was deffinatly overkill and would do just as well without a lord or quite as many knight models.
Depending on how you roll you can do a single unit of knights either 5-6 strong or 8-10 strong w/ BSB. For a Banner I'd take either the warbanner (to help with the SCR gap) or the one that gives +1 to M. As knights require a bit more care and finess to use to their full extent, i do not reccomend ever giving them frenzy. This is one unit you cannot afford to lose control of.
Also, depending on how you make adjustments (if any) you should be trimming up alot of points. By dropping back the knights alone you will get 200ish-300ish points, enough for a single choice of almost anything. You could fill both warrior units up to 25ish, you could go 1 unit of warriors and some marauders, or warriors and chosen. Keeping the HC I'd try and pick up another single model, either a warshrine or a shaggoth or something to help support your ground troops. Another mage wouldn't hurt, backups are never a bad idea when they can go POP.
2-3 units of dogs are ideal and ushually nessisary. since you have a few units with obvious strenths/weaknesses deployment is a dangerous game. use the dogs to buy yourself time and prevent total counter deployment.
Naked character is a little ifi to me. one bad miscast and poof 400 ish points gone.
I guess merauder horsemen is more of tricky subject with believers and non believers. I personnally grown to leve them since i guyded a HP abomanation to a table edge and let him bunck against the side for 4 turns (it was funny as hell).
Upgrading my Tzeetch warrior is actually a good idea since its the center of my battle line.
Adding another character means dropping a unit, so he has to be really worth it. Adding a book of secrets maybe a sollution here.
I'll rework the list and post an update.
Givin youre advise, and its going 2 on 2 on lists I've adjusted both lists. I dind't inserted some merauders simply because I just don't like the merauder models (painted a few, cinverted a few but there just empire models without flashy clothing). The merauder horsemen stayed because there just to funny (you can't belaive how fast they get targetted by shooting in my area just because they're fast cav and I've got a pretty nice unit of them just waiting to be shot at).
The characters are still item heavy cause in the setting they are build now they hav't let me down. They will be joining a unit depending on the army I'm facing.
So here thay are:
1 Sorcerrer Lord Lore of Shadow Level 4 wizard Infernal Puppet Talisman of Persevation Charmed Shield Conjoined Homonculus 1 Exalted Hero Mark of Tzeetch Barded Chaos Steed Battle Standard Bearer Shield Halberd Armour of Destiny 5 Merauder Horsemen Mark of Slaanesh Throwing Axes Shields Muscician Standard 24 Chaos Warriors Shields Mark of Tzeentch Standard Muscician Champion Blasted Stadard 12 Chaos Warriors Mark of Khorne Halberd Shields Standard Muscician Banner of Eternal Flame 5 Chaos Warhounds 6 Chaos Knights Mark of Nurgle Muscician Standard Warbanner 1 Hellcannon 3 Chaos Dwarfs
1 Sorcerrer Lord Lore of Shadow Level 4 Talisman of Persevation Infernal Puppet Conjoined Homunculus Charmed Shield 1 Exalted Hero BSB Mark of Tzeentch Armour of Destiny Shield Halberd Stream of Corruption 24 Chaos Warriors Mark Of Tzeentch Shields Muscician Banner Champion Blasted Stadard 18 Chaos Warrirors Mark of Khorne Halberds Shields Muscician Banner 5 Merauder Horsemen Mark of Slaanesh Throwing Axes Shields Muscician Standard 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne 1 Hellcannon 3 Chaos Dwarfs