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Hello To all, and some advice, 1500 - 3000 point Friendly.

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2K views 42 replies 8 participants last post by  Lord Borak 
#1 ·
Hi All,

First of All, I'd like to say hello to all of you as 5this will be my first post :)

I'm going to bow down to all your knowledge as I'm a little out of touch as it were!
To give you some idea, I started playing warhammer 1st edition, and stopped playing at 3rd edition. I've recently got roped back into it again, and so have bought core rules and the WoC army book. The last time I played chaos was under the 1st Realms of Chaos Book. The saddest thing of all was not the gap since then, but that I got rid of all my armies and miniatures - after seeing the prices they go for on fleabay I nearly wept!

So, here goes, I have two friends, one with an orc and goblin army, the other with dwarves, but they are thinking of changing to Tomb Kings/Vampire counts and Lizard men respectively. Oh and I really dislike high elves with a passion!

I see the biggest disadvantage of our WoC armies is the lack of long range missile attacks so am thinking along the lines of lots of cavalry and hellcannons etc.

As I don't have any miniatures at the moment, I'm not restricted by what I have if that makes any sense, so it's a clean sheet of paper. The guys are currently playing 1500pts but are talking about growing their new armies to 3000ish.

I've read a lot of posts already, so am getting a really good feel for 8th edition WoC, and has been a huge help especially in learning how you combat other armies strengths and play the limited headcount strategically.

Thanks in advance by the way :)
 
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#2 ·
Hello welcome to LO and back to Warhammer! It's always good to see new people interacting on the forum, I'll try to be of some help!

I think you summed it up pretty well yourself, warriors of chaos is an army that relies almost completely on there combat prowess to win games. What we lack in ranged combat we more than make up for in close combat. While it may seem like a weakness...our army is so tough long ranged attacks bounce off our guys most of the time anyways. We mustn't forget our magic phase though, we share a common strength in this department along with other armies like lizardmen, high elves, and VC's among others.

You'd actually be surprised at how ineffective cavalry really is in this edition, I always say that speed and maneuverability are important to our army, but that's not to say it's something we absolutely need to focus on to win games.

What you'll want to focus on instead is having a strong center to your army, a few solid blocks of unit's can take you a long way and 8th edition has really been centered around large blocks and magic.

I think things you'll want to keep in mind for your list are:

-lvl 4 sorcerer lord
-exalted hero(BSB)
-chaos warriors(a strong number for these guys range anywhere from 18-24)
-chaos marauders(play a big role in the numbers game for this edition, they are dirt cheap and can be taken in blocks as large as 40-50, which is where they are most effective)
-chaos knights/trolls/dragon ogres(they add a little speed and character to your list)
-hellcannon(gives you the option to shoot, and it's a hell of a beast in combat pun intended)

Obviously there is more you can take, this is kind of our bread and butter, something you'd see a lot in most lists around here on the forum. Warriors of chaos can pretty much take anything in are army book and still be competitive, it's one of our best qualities.

Anyways, sorry I couldn't be more in depth but the works piling up, best of luck!
 
#3 · (Edited)
Ok, second time I'm going to reply to this!! The first time I accidentally hit the back button and lost everything, then had to go to work........... *sigh*.

It's always nice to see new faces on the boards so welcome to LO. It's also nice to see someone who's crustier than I am!! I started with Realms of Chaos so can understand how much has changed since then!! There's still some golden oldies kicking around. Not least are the Dragon Ogres or the Chaos Chariot (which have to be the oldest and longest running bloody models in the GW range) but there are some lovelies in the collectors section on the GW site if you fancy reminiscing. I wish I kept a lot of my old stuff too. All the old special characters but mainly the books. So much back ground gone :(


Norma here said all the important bits. Cavalry were the gods of the previous editions. They ruled all and Infantry were a bit of an after thought. 8th Ed has seen the Infantry get the boost it needed to combat Cavalry and that in turn has meant Cavalry tactics have changed a great deal. Which is good because it's more realistic now. Anyway, Cav is still good for flanks and Chaos Knights still kick some royal behind in fights and they're possibly the best Cavalry as they can win fights without having to charge that turn (Ie rely on the str bonus from lances). Marauder Horsemen are still good for hunting flankers, lone heroes, Lone monsters and Warmachines.


Infantry is where it's at though and by golly we have it good. Chaos Warriors and Marauders are the business in terms of points efficiency and general awesomeness. Warriors have, simply, fantastic stats. Even better than most of the Elite units of other races (even elves and Dwarves) so can munch through just about everything. Marauders are just as nasty, while they are naked and have low Toughness they're cheap so you can take loads of them. Couple with the fact that they pack a huge punch with great weapons/flails they can take a beating and then hit back as hard as any Elite unit in the game. Usually winning such fights by playing a war of attrition enemy Elite units can't compete with. As for unit sizes, Warriors are good at 18 (6x3) and Marauders are good at 30+ models but are also good in cheap throwaway units of 18 with flails.


In terms of what you should go for. Our core choices are the main strength of our army so have a good few points spent in Warriors and/or Marauders. Then pretty much choose what you want in terms of other units. There are no 'rubbish' units in our book but some don't shine as strongly as others (Forsaken and Ogres for example) so it really doesn't matter what you go for as long as it has a 'role' to fulfil. Pretty much everyone is packing a sorcerer of some variety as magic is too good to miss out on in this edition. It's also pretty foolhardy to go to battle without a mage to protect you from the enemy wizards so even if you aren't fussed with magic I'd still grab one to give you some bonuses to ward of the enemy.


Phew, that post is almost as long as one of the captains!!!
 
#4 ·
Hi, and sorry for not getting back to you all sooner.

Thanks Lord Borak and Noma for your input, it's actually been a huge help.

I sympathise Lord Borak, I remember just throwing my Ravening Hordes book away together with my terror of the Lichmaster and bloodbath at Orcs drift boxes! Do you remember the citadel compendiums when they had the Kaleb Dark comic strip in them?

Well, after a couple of cheeky ebay bids and some perseverence I've ended up with the following models, curtesy of a guy who's getting rid of everything he has and wanted a quick job lot sale!

Archeon, A daemon prince, Wulfrik, Sorcorer of chaos, Exalted champion of Khorne, A blood thirster, Hell Cannon, Warshrine and a Limited edition rulebook.

Total troops are as follows:

2 Lords on Juggernaut (I just love these models)

2 lords on Demonic Steed

24 Chaos Knights

24 Chaos Warriors

15 marauder Horsemen

51 Chaos Marauders

10 Chaos warhounds

3 Chaos Trolls


Now, the two guys who I'm probably going to play have the following:

Guy 1 : Orc and Goblin Army - but will be working on a High elf army also - ( I really do dislike those pointy eared do gooders!)
Guy 2 : Dwarf army but will also be working on Lizard man. Funnily enough decided when I told him i'd be fielding chaos, chaos and more chaos!

I'm going to try to break the army down into 1000, 1500, and 3000 point sets, so I can hopefully just add models to the basic 1000pt setup.

based on what I've got, your thoughts would be really apprreciated, I'm looking at a job lot of marauders, which if I won, would bring the total up to a nice round 100 chaos marauders - but if I don't need them I won't bid. From what you have both said, I think I have enough cavalry to be getting on with, and this lot will take till christmas to paint anyway!
 
#5 ·
Comments in blue.

Hi, and sorry for not getting back to you all sooner.

Thanks Lord Borak and Noma for your input, it's actually been a huge help.

No worries dude. It gives us something to do ;)

I sympathise Lord Borak, I remember just throwing my Ravening Hordes book away together with my terror of the Lichmaster and bloodbath at Orcs drift boxes! Do you remember the citadel compendiums when they had the Kaleb Dark comic strip in them?

Yeah I do. They actually released a model for Kaleb back in 2002........ Jesus Christ that was a Decade ago!! He was a Games Day miniature and was pretty cool. No way near as cool as it should have been but it was still alright. Not many people knew who he was but a few of us did....... ;) Ravening Hordes? Was that that little pamphlet they released when everything changed? I think I have that as a PDF file somewhere. I do miss all the old magazines like Thrud, the old Blood Bowl Comics and the Inferno Mags. Especially Lord Boraks own 'agony aunt' section! Hehe

Well, after a couple of cheeky ebay bids and some perseverence I've ended up with the following models, curtesy of a guy who's getting rid of everything he has and wanted a quick job lot sale!

Archeon, A daemon prince, Wulfrik, Sorcorer of chaos, Exalted champion of Khorne, A blood thirster, Hell Cannon, Warshrine and a Limited edition rulebook.

Total troops are as follows:

2 Lords on Juggernaut (I just love these models)

2 lords on Demonic Steed

24 Chaos Knights

24 Chaos Warriors

15 marauder Horsemen

51 Chaos Marauders

10 Chaos warhounds

3 Chaos Trolls


That's an impressive Horde you have there. 24 Warriors is a good start but I'd grab another box so you can make 2 units of 18. The Knights, bloody hell did that guy have a fetish?, you probably wont use them all. 2 units of 6 with Khorne are good flankers or you can go mental and do a big unit of 12 with MoT and loads of protective magic items on attached heroes. I'd also see if you can pick up some more Trolls. 3 isn't really going to do much to scare the enemy but 6 (or more) really start to make an impact.

Are these guys built? If so, what are their weapons?


Now, the two guys who I'm probably going to play have the following:

Guy 1 : Orc and Goblin Army - but will be working on a High elf army also - ( I really do dislike those pointy eared do gooders!)
Guy 2 : Dwarf army but will also be working on Lizard man. Funnily enough decided when I told him i'd be fielding chaos, chaos and more chaos!

I'm going to try to break the army down into 1000, 1500, and 3000 point sets, so I can hopefully just add models to the basic 1000pt setup.

based on what I've got, your thoughts would be really apprreciated, I'm looking at a job lot of marauders, which if I won, would bring the total up to a nice round 100 chaos marauders - but if I don't need them I won't bid. From what you have both said, I think I have enough cavalry to be getting on with, and this lot will take till christmas to paint anyway!



Ok, here's a wee breakdown:

Characters:
For 1000pts and other low level point games I'd probably grab a Hero level sorcerer as your only Character. It's hard not to be distracted by all the downright awesome heroes we have but in all honesty we don;t need them. Our warriors and Marauders are more than capable of looking after themselves. As for the Mark, well that's up to you but, Tzeentch is good for the +1 to cast and combined with the 3rd eye of Tzeentch he can steal the enemies spells if he gets duff ones. As for his Magical equipment, the Infernal Puppet or the Blood of Tzeentch are good for keeping your guy alive. The puppet is good for making the enemy explode and the Blood is good for making your own magic more potent. It's personal preference.

The next character that should be on your list is a Battle Standard Bearer. Give this guy some upgrades to keep him alive and that's usually a 4+ Ward magic item from the rule book. Combine that with Tzeentch and it goes to a 3+ Ward. Give the guy a Halberd and you're good to go. I'd probably only look at this fella at 1500pts+. 2 characters in any smaller is just too much of a squeeze.

At 2k or bigger then Grab a Sorcerer Lord and a BSB. That's all you 'really' to do well. You can splash out on more characters if you want but otherwise this will keep you well. Another support sorcerer to carry an Arcane item around is always a good idea when you have points spare.

CORE:
Warriors: Ok, Weapons. There's 2 types of weapons you should ignore. That's additional Hand weapons and Great Weapons Additional hand weapons are generally inferior weapons compared to Halberds. Statistically speaking halberds will always kill more. Avoid Great weapons like the Plague. Our best stat is our Initiative 5 as that lets us fight first in most cases. Taking Great weapons removes our greatest Strength.

Ok, Marks. Sword and Shield warriors should be Tzeentch as it boosts their Parry up to a 5+ Ward. Halberd Warriors should be Khorne because if you want to kill something ask a Khorne Warrior to do it. Nurgle and Slaanesh are a bit lack lustre. They're 'ok' and if you want to do a themed army then go for it but Tzeentch and Khorne are where it's at.

Marauders:
Give 'em Great weapons. Mark them Tzeentch if you rank them deep. Give them Khorne if you rank them as a horde. 50 is a good number. I wouldn't go bigger but if you want 2 units of 50 then by all means do.

Horsemen:
For hunting enemy War machines and so forth all you really need is flails and the Slaanesh to stop them panicking. Musicians are good to rally but everything else is a waste of points really.

Dogs:
Good to place down before your main units as it lets you see where he sets up. This will let you deploy your Warriors/Marauders to counter his units and make them more effective. Then just use them to block charges and, if they can, hunt war machines.

SPECIAL:

Knights:
Right there's 2 ways to do Kngihts. First one is to keep the untis small (5 or 6) and give them the Mark of Khorne. This gives you a fast, hard hitting unit for flank work. They can look after themselves well enough. The other way is to go 'Death Star'. Take 10+, give thhem Tzeentch, the Blasted Std to keep them safe from shooting and add in a character with a Magic resistance item and you're good to go.

Trolls:
I'd say 6 is a minimum in anything bigger than 1000pts. Otherwise they're just too few to make a great deal of an impact. Keep them near the General and the BSB and away from Fire and they'll do you proud.

phew.....
 
#6 ·
Sorry for the delay in posting back!

Lord Borak, Ravening Hordes was released in 1985 and was the first book of 'army lists'. It was pretty mental really, 12 man orc stone throwers with a 10" template for example!



Chaos got a monster great deal as you could pour points into Chaos mutations for your heroes- and they were stackable, so if you rolled chaos legs (12" movement ) twice it doubled!

It was 2nd edition - early days! Really about the only thing close to chaos was the Nippon Armies Samurai units.

Anyway, back to the present day...

So, based on an initial 1500pts I've initially decided on this:

Core:

50 marauders In one unit 270 points
Great Weapons
Mark of Khorne

24 Chaos Warriors 414 points
Halberds
Mark of Khorne

24 Chaos Warriors 414 points
Halberds
Mark of Khorne

Total 1098 points


Rare:
Hell Cannon 205 points

Heroes:
L2 Sorceror 195 points
Mark of Tzeentch
Infernal Puppet
3rd Eye of tzeentch
Enchanted shield

Total Points: 1498


Your thoughts are really appreciated on this, my thoughts were that if I went for a 2000 points then I could add knights, perhaps another unit of halberd Chaos Warriors and change the lvl 2 for a lvl4, but essentially, wizard aside, keep the above as my core battleforce.

One of the things i'm not really clear on, is which takes precedence- army book or main rule book?

The reason I ask is because if the rule books' ratio's are anything to go by then I could theoretically throw in a sorcorer lord with the remaining points, but if I look at the army book I cant until at least 2000 points.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Comments in blue

Lord Borak, Ravening Hordes was released in 1985 and was the first book of 'army lists'. It was pretty mental really, 12 man orc stone throwers with a 10" template for example!

Lol, I'm old but not that old ;) I started GW stuff in, er, 93 I think. So a bit of a Newb really. GW released another Ravening hordes book at a later date but that was a pamphlet with some simple army lists in (for all the races) to tide them over until their Army books were released. It was to cover a big change in the Fantasy rules which made the old books all unusable. I think it was the change to 5th ED or something.

Chaos got a monster great deal as you could pour points into Chaos mutations for your heroes- and they were stackable, so if you rolled chaos legs (12" movement ) twice it doubled!

I seem to remember this though. Was a D100 chart? I remember being able to roll up a Chaos Lord with a 'silly walk', 'Brightly coloured skin' and 'eyes on stalks' and other such random mutations. I might have just read the book rather than played it though. I think I just used it for making whaky conversions back when Borak was young.




Core:

50 marauders In one unit 270 points
Great Weapons
Mark of Khorne


24 Chaos Warriors 414 points
Halberds
Mark of Khorne

24 Chaos Warriors 414 points
Halberds
Mark of Khorne

Buy these boys a Standard. There's no real point not to and it'll help in missions. Musicians are useful too for reforming and what not but you can live without them if points are especially tight. To free up some points maybe drop the Warriors to 21 strong and run them 7x3 maybe? That'll give you some points for magic standards, command etc.

In fact you could probably reduce the size of the Warriors to 18 for now. In bigger games the extra numbers will help you endure the increased casualties whilst marching over the board and will help remove the enemies Steadfast. At these points levels though you shouldn't face as many BIG enemy units and shouldn't take stupid amounts of losses so you can save the points for other goodies.

Total 1098 points


Rare:
Hell Cannon 205 points

Heroes:
L2 Sorceror 195 points
Mark of Tzeentch
Infernal Puppet
3rd Eye of tzeentch
Enchanted shield

Looks good to me.

Total Points: 1498


The army itself is pretty rock solid. The only trouble I can see is being out deployed. You have no 'chaff' to put down before you main units so the enemy can simply avoid you big blocks of Warriors or get to choose what your units fight. Adding some cheap units of hounds will help you get your warriors into the fights they really want to be in.
 
#7 ·
musicians and standards (including magic ones) are pretty standard choices for our army at any point range these days. and if your going to bunker your sorcerer in a unit, then a champion for that unit is standard as well(will of chaos means your sorcerer will have to issue and accept challenges he may not win unless you have a champion to do it for him) at 1500 youve got alot of hitting power in this build, and plenty of wounds to soak some fire, but 2 units of 24 warriors might be alittle much in the beef department. alot of people(myself included) will go 1 unit of 18 with halberds MoK and a banner of eternal flame to be the hammer and a unit of 18-24 with MoT and HW/S combo for a 3+/5++ save to be the anvil. give that anvil unit a blasted standard and theres not much that can mess with them. the points you could save by droping one unit down to 18 would be enough to toss out your command upgrades and round out the core of the list. the sorcerer looks pretty good, but swap the enchanted shield for a charmed shield. that way his first miscast gets eaten up by that fancy 2+ save. people will tell you to pick a lore other than tzeentch, but on a level 2 with the third eye, i think its the best.

generally speaking, the basic rule book takes precedence over our army book except in 2 situations. the first being the erratas/FAQs. download them on the GW site. the second being for the cost of common magic items. use the cost listed in our book for magic items. usually that means we get screwed out of a few points. looking at your L2 sorc listed, hes actually 215 points.

as for expanding your army to 2000, your on the right track. make the sorc a sorc lord, buy an exalted hero battle standard barer and maybe fit a unit of knights if you can.
 
#11 ·
Thanks Guys :)

Yup, Lord old pal, that's the one, the d100 roll for chaos lunacy table! I bought it in 88 I think it was, I fielded an undead army that lost half its troops to instability in the first 3 turns and then the rest was wiped out buy said 10 man rock chucker.

White Dwarf Issue 89

I love reading these lists to get the different perspectives and angles - fortunately for me, the only real pain is my dwarf opponent, the other guy and his orcs and goblins, who has now changed to high elves likes his high stats character , elite units and monster bling.

I hadn't thought of the two units of 18 figures, but yes that suddenly frees up about 120 points.

So lets see;

Core:

Marauders Horde: 292 points
50 marauders
Mark of Khorne
Great Weapons
Musician
Standard

Chaos Warriors Unit 1: 346 Points
18 Chaos Warriors
Mark of Khorne
Halberds
Standard
Musician
Magical Banner : Eternal flame


Chaos Warrior Unit 2: 378points
18 Chaos Warriors
Mark of Tzeentch
Shields
Standard
Musician
Champion
Blasted Standard

10 Warhounds : 60pts

Rare:
Hell Cannon 205pts

General: 205 Points
Chaos Sorceror L2 - Lore of Tz
Mark of Tzeentch
3rd Eye of Tzeentch
Infernal Puppet
Charmed Shield
Favour of the Gods

Total 1491

So I'll bunker the general into the Tz marked Chaos Warriors and send the dogs out to herd the enemy sheep as it were.

So the next power up will be for 3000 points :)
 
#15 · (Edited)
BAD news? My good man that's not bad news at all. If he's taking TK then most likely he'll be taking a bod with the Lore of light and then you're in for a treat. Use the 3rd eye of Tzeentch to steal his spells and start casting ASF or Init10 & +1A on your warriors and see how nasty they get ;) As for his Big monsters, I wouldn't worry too much about that. A direct hit with the Hellcanon can take off a fair few wounds from the big nasties and make them less willing to send their wounded beast into combat.


In 3k you can grab a Disc Rider. An Exalted or Lord, it's up to you. His purpose is to kill enemy monsters. The way he does it is to bring the Potion of Might and the glaive of Putrefaction. This will make him str8 for a turn and any wound he inflicts makes Mrbeasty Str&T 2 for the remainder of the game. He should be able to do that easy as you please. Unfortunately you're lacking on the durability side on the Exalted but if you do take a Lord you have Points spare to give him a good ward save. Otherwise this build is fun for killing beasties.


Exalted, MoT, Disc, Glaive of Putrefaction, Potion of Might, Charmed shield.

He has a 2+ Save, a 6+ Ward and a 2+ save against the first 'hit' so he can be safe from the worst for a turn before he charges his target. When he does he drinks the potion and screws over the Nasty monster. On top of that build you can take Stream of Corruption so you can do 2d6 Str3 hits on their T2 monster as well.


Yup, Lord old pal, that's the one, the d100 roll for chaos lunacy table! I bought it in 88 I think it was, I fielded an undead army that lost half its troops to instability in the first 3 turns and then the rest was wiped out buy said 10 man rock chucker
Guess I read it in an old WD then!! I'm sure it was in a fairly decent sized book though. You sure it wasn't in a hard back book or a rules set? My memory is very clouded of those times so I am likely to be wrong!!

Cheers for the link though! It'd be nice to find that chart again.
 
#14 · (Edited)
If he's going TK, you might want to drop MoT from your sorceror and go for pit of shades or purple sun... It's not a bad choice against dwarves and lizzies, either!

Other than that, make sure your marauders soak up the chariot charge, they have ablative wounds to spare, and S5 to beat them down afterwards.
 
#16 ·
Lord Borak, awesome - I really need to clue up on available options!

Now as for the ravening hordes, try this link:
Exodite's GW Product History

It was released in 87 and was originally a rules set which later turned into the ravening hordes book you remember. However, white dwarf often reproduced juicy tables and chunks of rules in order to seduce you into buying the main rulebook, so its highly likely.

Other than that for me it was the first Realm of Chaos Book back in 88 which made me want to play a WoC army and pretty much set the template for the chaos of today.

I'd like to see that chart again, I think it was in the RoC hardback. I'm sure there was another magic weapon that was pretty mad as well (may have been Kaleb Dark's axe) - where if you successfully wounded you could have another hit, so essentially just mash your way through a huge horde of enemies.

Now, back to the list, at 3k I was thinking of more warriors and knights rather than anything weird and wonderful. Perhaps I might take 6 trolls, but overall I'm more thinking of hitting hard with elite shock troops and maybe littering a few more hounds about the place to act as sheepdogs for the enemy cattle!

naturally I might have to look at a second hellcannon as I've got a really nice little scratch build in mind once I finish my main army painting.

High elf dude was banging on about some spearmen elite units or other last night and how untouchable they were... all I heard in my head was artillery shelling, and Dwarf player is banking on his organ guns doing most of his work. We shall see!
 
#17 ·
Nice to know I'm not going completely bonkers then. I'll check with some of my mates who are hoarders of books and see if they have the table/RH Book. If they do I can scan it in and give you the link to the PDF.

As for the list. You really can't go too wrong with more Warriors. Warriors are pretty damn hardcore and will do pretty much anything you ask them too. At 3k my list packs 3 units of 24. The trouble is taking too many units so that you start to fall over yourself. I'd probably stick to 3 or 4 'main' line units and then look to grabbing nasty flanking units and bulking up those Main line units as you creep up the points scale.


The Poncy Elves have something called Lothien Sea Guard. They're basically archers who have spears. They're a core unit and most players will take a BIG old block of them. they are retty weak but most Elf players will be taking either the Lore of Life to boost their Toughness or give them regenerate and/or using shadow magic to cast Razormind to make their attacks stupidly high (Str=LD). Coupled with their High Init and Always strike force they'll kill anything going. You really don't want him getting all those buffs going.

Elves really don't like two things. They don't like taking lots of casualties from shooting as their units are too small to take the losses. They usually get around this with life magic which makes them harder to kill and/or raises models back from the dead. The other thing they hate is Chariots. Elf units are small, compact, have low Toughness and low armour. They get around this by striking first with lots of high quality attacks. You bring chariots to the table and they get real twitchy as they'll be taking those impact hits before they strike. Chariots always work better in pairs though as one on his own is a bit random.

Organ guns are a real pain in the backside as they Auto hit. So not much you can do in avoiding them. You need to kill them quick with Magic or fast combat troops like Horsemen or Dogs or give your troops some good protection from shooting (Mot+ Blasted Std or Iron Curse Icon).


What's the plan for the Cannon?? Pics would be nice ;)
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the great advice, it's not only put my mind at ease, but also given me some strategy ideas to mull over as well.

I've gone and ordered two packs of Halberds and some chosen heads for when I finally get round to painting my troops. I painted my first figure in over 15 years the other day, a dwarf I was given free in my local GW. Very weird trying to remember my palette again, what blends and mixes I used to get a certain result.

As for the Hellcannon, I was looking at something slightly bigger than the existing item, I wanted it to look like a total perversion of an empire or dwarf cannon, big bronze barrel, huge spiked wheels, big brass bands holding it from blowing itself apart, and wanted to work in the bound daemon theme somehow, perhaps by making the barrel daemon like - think carbonized daemon tied up with brass or bronze rings perhaps!

I don't really know, but it's probably going to be a near total scratch build - i'm sure it'll take shape the more i think about it.

Words I'd use right now for it to capture the theme is eminating aggression, hatred, terror, heavy, powerful, malevolent. don't know really- but you get the idea.

Anyway as it all takes shape, I'll post up some images of sketches and the like.

Step one... paint remaining dwarf - then crack into the horde!

As an added bonus, I found my Heroes for Wargames book- old school inspiration!
 
#19 ·
No worries dude.

The Cannon sounds pretty cool. I was kinda thinking of making one out of the new Ogre Iron Blaster and some defiler like legs and then............ yeah that's about as Far as I got idea wise. I couldn't work out how to make it look like it wasn't some legs stuck on a cannon so I left the idea on the 'shelf'. You really will have to take some pics as that idea of yours sounds pretty cool. (almost like an Epic Ork wagon, Bone crusher or something)

If you're after all of the old paints you can still buy them from the Supplier. Coat of Arms (Coat D'Arms)
 
#20 ·
I never knew they were supplying the original paints - see you learn summut new every day!

I was looking at the new stuff in White Dwarf and on the website, and it's all come on so much. My style is still quite old school, - well it would be as that's all I know! I'm also interested in all this non metallic metal thing that's going on, which is kind of cool but I can't help feeling that its in response to the fact that Acrylic as a medium can't really do metals.

I'm surprised at how far the Citadel colour has come, and I like it alot, thirty six different pots came with the bundle I bought and they're mostly all three quarters full, but the metals still look muddy and well, not that great. I still found myself buying some basic colours in enamel and metals as well. I used them as a base coat and them went to acrylics to do all the post colour wash work.

Now, onto YOUR hellcannon idea - how about this; Ogre blaster barrel, the legs get stuck on towards the back, and haunches and musculature created and blended into the barrel. The daemon has been bound into the barrel which in turn has melded their two forms. The legs are chained perhaps, or bound to some large wheels so it can't move freely, also anchoring it to the ground. At various parts along the barrel the daemon's muscle and form still show through the fused metal, horned body, the odd scale or sinew. Perhaps it even has its arms so that it can drag itself along.

I get this image that the daemon would have been tricked and forced into a huge metal barrel and then once it got stuck, the dwarves fused and melted the barrel into/onto it, and then strapped it up with massive bands. That sort of stuff!

This idea is coming on quite nice, feel free to add more and we'll see about getting a sketch going with a view to get something solid modelled.
 
#21 ·
Hey dude, sorry it's taken me so long to reply...

I never knew they were supplying the original paints - see you learn summut new every day!

I was looking at the new stuff in White Dwarf and on the website, and it's all come on so much. My style is still quite old school, - well it would be as that's all I know! I'm also interested in all this non metallic metal thing that's going on, which is kind of cool but I can't help feeling that its in response to the fact that Acrylic as a medium can't really do metals.

With ya there chap. I can appreciate that it takes a lot of skill to get it looking so good but in real life it looks, well, pants. It's a 2d effect on a 3d model so in the picss it looks great, up close to the eye, well........ yeah. I've seen some stuff I've loved in pics and when I've seen 'em I haven't been impressed.

I'm surprised at how far the Citadel colour has come, and I like it alot, thirty six different pots came with the bundle I bought and they're mostly all three quarters full, but the metals still look muddy and well, not that great. I still found myself buying some basic colours in enamel and metals as well. I used them as a base coat and them went to acrylics to do all the post colour wash work.

I've never had a problem with the Metallics to be honest. They do need a lot of thinning down though and pretty much every pot of Boltgun I've ever bought has been goopy. I still morn the loss of tentacle Pink though......... I really miss that colour. I really do miss the Inks though. Especially Black n Brown as they were perfect for basing and black over Chaos Black spray gave a really nice glossy black. Oh well.


Now, onto YOUR hellcannon idea - how about this; Ogre blaster barrel, the legs get stuck on towards the back, and haunches and musculature created and blended into the barrel. The daemon has been bound into the barrel which in turn has melded their two forms. The legs are chained perhaps, or bound to some large wheels so it can't move freely, also anchoring it to the ground. At various parts along the barrel the daemon's muscle and form still show through the fused metal, horned body, the odd scale or sinew. Perhaps it even has its arms so that it can drag itself along.

I get this image that the daemon would have been tricked and forced into a huge metal barrel and then once it got stuck, the dwarves fused and melted the barrel into/onto it, and then strapped it up with massive bands. That sort of stuff!

This idea is coming on quite nice, feel free to add more and we'll see about getting a sketch going with a view to get something solid modelled.

That sounds pretty cool. I actually thought of doing the crew sacrificed to it and having their bodies either nailed to it or that their bodies had been warped into it in almost a 'thing' fashion.
 
#22 ·
Now I like a man who's a The Thing fan!

Yes, the whole thought of actually having the crew part melded into the body - The thing meets Hellraiser!

I was thinking warshrines as well, and thought what about one with 'relics' from enemy forces, like part of a screaming bell or dwarf anvil on it? Unless the new rulebook does me a favour I might be pulling the thing with a couple of Juggernauts I've got looking lonely!
 
#23 ·
This thing is just getting bigger and bigger lol. The cannon is about 6" long, plus 2 Juggers pulling it is about another 3"....... That's one big Cannon/Shrine!! Not that that's a bad thing lol.

The new 'Thing' has really got me it itching to crack out the Green stuff and make some Spawn and mutants. Their models/Make up/Monsters are absolutely stunning. The film scares me though.........
 
#24 ·
Hi guys, long time lurker thinking about a very similar army I've been contemplating.

How would you recommend turning this into a 2000 point build?

Would it be best to upgrade the sorc to level 4 and getting a battle standard plus 10 more warhounds, or to just add a group of knights and another hero?

Thanks
 
#25 ·
So taking stock of my horde at the moment, as it stands it looks like this:

24 Chaos Knights

72 Chaos Warriors

15 marauder Horsemen

51 Chaos Marauders

20 Chaos warhounds

3 Chaos Trolls

(20 very old school plastic CW's but they don't count because they are total rubbish! - although with a dremel and mutation bitz they might make passable forsaken!)

Now, before my ebay trigger finger gets itchy again, and this is a very stupid question - is this enough!!!

Unless I'm way off the mark I can field 3000 points with this lot once they've been allocated attributes etc.

so do I take a breather and take stock of what I have, and perhaps a bit of a sort out?

I'm not keen on marauder horsemen, both game wise and the figures themselves, so perhaps selling this little lot might be better than hanging onto them. After following some of the threads in the man WoC forum I'm quite taken with using forsaken a la Borak, in their stead, together with my dogs.

Now I just need to stock up on TCP and I can start stripping some of the painted models!

Keeping to the sound advice of 4 or 5 main units, at what point would you experienced WoCers stop padding out your main units and start looking at things like ogres and trolls and other battlefield bling units like monstrous units and the like?


Lord Borak, getting some pencil sketches down for the warshrine, and now you got me looking at elephant models to convert! Focus! Focus!

I don't think I need look at chariots, but then again I will be going up against Tomb Kings and High Elves so perhaps its worth considering - don't know.

Time to finalise my list I think...
 
#26 ·
(20 very old school plastic CW's but they don't count because they are total rubbish! - although with a dremel and mutation bitz they might make passable forsaken!)
It's what I did with mine ;) Unit 1 & Unit 2


If you're up against High Smurfs then Chariots are a blessing. So I'd grab a pair. They're old models but with a bit of effort, some new crew and new horses they can look awesome.
 
#28 ·
Dear god, I forgot about those ones. Yeah there's sod all you can do with those mono pose atrocities. Other than maybe, one day, do a retro army. With everything painted bright red with sand bases painted green and dry brushed bad moon yellow. Then grow a mullet and play games listening to 80's cheesy rock and eating pop tarts.

Or you could throw them in the bin and pretend they never existed.
 
#29 ·
yup, which is why they haven't counted in the total inventory lol!

The bin it is!

So going back to the forsaken - do you think that it'd be worth keeping the horsemen, even though they're disadvantaged under 8th edition, or do I look to use forsaken as the alternative?

How would you grow your army beyond the three 24 man CW units and the marauder block? I was thinking knights of course, but after that perhaps ogres or trolls. Maybe the giant even. I know that its all battlefield bling but I quite like the idea of chaos ogres in chaos armour with heavy weapon and MOK, even though they weigh in at 60pts each plus the mark.

Or, do I just stick with building more core rank and files, and perhaps start looking at things like Chosen?

I'm sure that once upon a time there were some pretty nifty chariot models made by other companies that I could have used as a chariot base and use some of my older chaos knights horses.

I saw the old grenadier goblin war giant on fleabay - i'd forgotten how awesome it was!


Naturally another hellcannon and shrine built my me is a foregone conclusion.
 
#30 ·
Forsaken are a bit lack lustre to be honest. They're a nice little unit but they're just a little too expensive for what you get. Which is a shame because I think they're cool. Still, if you think they're cool take them. They're not a bad unit.

I wouldn't solely take Forsaken over Horsemen. The Horseman's Vanguard move makes them a lot better for taking out Warmachines early on. Horsemen however can't take out Archer units which hide Wizards as the stand and shoot kills them. The Forsakens little pip of Save and T4 usually means bow fire doesn't wipe them out and they can usually rip most archer units to shreds. They kinda fill the same roll as Knights but are cheaper and not as good.

As for how I would bulk up your list. I'd add a load of cool things. You've got the solid core of your list done so now just add stuff you like. Giants can be fun, so can units of trolls, so can loads of chariots and Knights. It really is what tickles your fancy (so to speak).


Is that the Marauder Giant? I love that giant and every time my mate brings it out of the case I feel like beating him up and stealing it...... My Chaos Giant is converted out of all the Giants. Marauder legs, 'new' metal giant torso and new plastic giant head. Here's what I did with the GW chariots to make them 'better'.
 
#40 ·
That's an awesome army! Very inspiring, I love how there are no horns on the helms - it makes them look like non-nonsense killers. I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of the horns on all my warriors helmets because the more I look at yours the more gaudy mine look. I'm just worried my sub-par painting skills will make them look stupid w/o horns.
 
#31 ·
Lord Borak, Awesome, yea, I just find the forsaken quite a cool if not altogether great unit, and like you, I've got those older generation chaos warriors which can be converted. I took your advice, and binned all those boxy chaos warriors - which I was going to do anyway, but on the plus side it did give me 20 great axe heads to use for marauders!

I know the marauder giant, If you're that in love with it I might be tempted to sell you mine! - no, the Goblin War Giant by Grenadier was in my eyes one fo the most awesomenessest piece of modelsmithing imaginable - and it still brings a tear to my eye! I used to have one many years ago and really regret letting it go.

Just for your info, the miniature was sculpted by a guy called Nick Lund, he did the original Black orcs for Citadel back in Compendium 2 days. He took his entire model line to Grenadier, and the good news is that all his orcs are an exactly the same as the citadel stuff he did.

Now, the other good news is that the whole grenadier model line was taken over by an italian company Mirliton, and so are all back in production...

Check the Goblin War Giant at the bootm out, I'm seeing a very elaborate war shrine conversion parked on the top of that platform!

Mirliton SG :: 25/28 mm miniatures for collectors and wargames grenadier miniatures mirliton fantasy goblins

Then go to the orc section and check out the chariot. - I know its nostalgia, but for me these are the quintissential orcs and always will be. I was thinking of paying tribute to the Crescent moon icon they all carry by incorporating it somehow into my chaos army as a theme.

Mirliton SG :: 25/28 mm miniatures for collectors and wargames grenadier miniatures mirliton fantasy orcs

enjoy!!


p.s. I finished painting my first figures for a friend - the first for over 18 years! I'll post them over in the
 
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