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First of All, I'd like to say hello to all of you as 5this will be my first post
I'm going to bow down to all your knowledge as I'm a little out of touch as it were!
To give you some idea, I started playing warhammer 1st edition, and stopped playing at 3rd edition. I've recently got roped back into it again, and so have bought core rules and the WoC army book. The last time I played chaos was under the 1st Realms of Chaos Book. The saddest thing of all was not the gap since then, but that I got rid of all my armies and miniatures - after seeing the prices they go for on fleabay I nearly wept!
So, here goes, I have two friends, one with an orc and goblin army, the other with dwarves, but they are thinking of changing to Tomb Kings/Vampire counts and Lizard men respectively. Oh and I really dislike high elves with a passion!
I see the biggest disadvantage of our WoC armies is the lack of long range missile attacks so am thinking along the lines of lots of cavalry and hellcannons etc.
As I don't have any miniatures at the moment, I'm not restricted by what I have if that makes any sense, so it's a clean sheet of paper. The guys are currently playing 1500pts but are talking about growing their new armies to 3000ish.
I've read a lot of posts already, so am getting a really good feel for 8th edition WoC, and has been a huge help especially in learning how you combat other armies strengths and play the limited headcount strategically.
Thanks in advance by the way
Hello welcome to LO and back to Warhammer! It's always good to see new people interacting on the forum, I'll try to be of some help!
I think you summed it up pretty well yourself, warriors of chaos is an army that relies almost completely on there combat prowess to win games. What we lack in ranged combat we more than make up for in close combat. While it may seem like a weakness...our army is so tough long ranged attacks bounce off our guys most of the time anyways. We mustn't forget our magic phase though, we share a common strength in this department along with other armies like lizardmen, high elves, and VC's among others.
You'd actually be surprised at how ineffective cavalry really is in this edition, I always say that speed and maneuverability are important to our army, but that's not to say it's something we absolutely need to focus on to win games.
What you'll want to focus on instead is having a strong center to your army, a few solid blocks of unit's can take you a long way and 8th edition has really been centered around large blocks and magic.
I think things you'll want to keep in mind for your list are:
-lvl 4 sorcerer lord
-chaos warriors(a strong number for these guys range anywhere from 18-24)
-chaos marauders(play a big role in the numbers game for this edition, they are dirt cheap and can be taken in blocks as large as 40-50, which is where they are most effective)
-chaos knights/trolls/dragon ogres(they add a little speed and character to your list)
-hellcannon(gives you the option to shoot, and it's a hell of a beast in combat pun intended)
Obviously there is more you can take, this is kind of our bread and butter, something you'd see a lot in most lists around here on the forum. Warriors of chaos can pretty much take anything in are army book and still be competitive, it's one of our best qualities.
Anyways, sorry I couldn't be more in depth but the works piling up, best of luck!
Ok, second time I'm going to reply to this!! The first time I accidentally hit the back button and lost everything, then had to go to work........... *sigh*.
It's always nice to see new faces on the boards so welcome to LO. It's also nice to see someone who's crustier than I am!! I started with Realms of Chaos so can understand how much has changed since then!! There's still some golden oldies kicking around. Not least are the Dragon Ogres or the Chaos Chariot (which have to be the oldest and longest running bloody models in the GW range) but there are some lovelies in the collectors section on the GW site if you fancy reminiscing. I wish I kept a lot of my old stuff too. All the old special characters but mainly the books. So much back ground gone
Norma here said all the important bits. Cavalry were the gods of the previous editions. They ruled all and Infantry were a bit of an after thought. 8th Ed has seen the Infantry get the boost it needed to combat Cavalry and that in turn has meant Cavalry tactics have changed a great deal. Which is good because it's more realistic now. Anyway, Cav is still good for flanks and Chaos Knights still kick some royal behind in fights and they're possibly the best Cavalry as they can win fights without having to charge that turn (Ie rely on the str bonus from lances). Marauder Horsemen are still good for hunting flankers, lone heroes, Lone monsters and Warmachines.
Infantry is where it's at though and by golly we have it good. Chaos Warriors and Marauders are the business in terms of points efficiency and general awesomeness. Warriors have, simply, fantastic stats. Even better than most of the Elite units of other races (even elves and Dwarves) so can munch through just about everything. Marauders are just as nasty, while they are naked and have low Toughness they're cheap so you can take loads of them. Couple with the fact that they pack a huge punch with great weapons/flails they can take a beating and then hit back as hard as any Elite unit in the game. Usually winning such fights by playing a war of attrition enemy Elite units can't compete with. As for unit sizes, Warriors are good at 18 (6x3) and Marauders are good at 30+ models but are also good in cheap throwaway units of 18 with flails.
In terms of what you should go for. Our core choices are the main strength of our army so have a good few points spent in Warriors and/or Marauders. Then pretty much choose what you want in terms of other units. There are no 'rubbish' units in our book but some don't shine as strongly as others (Forsaken and Ogres for example) so it really doesn't matter what you go for as long as it has a 'role' to fulfil. Pretty much everyone is packing a sorcerer of some variety as magic is too good to miss out on in this edition. It's also pretty foolhardy to go to battle without a mage to protect you from the enemy wizards so even if you aren't fussed with magic I'd still grab one to give you some bonuses to ward of the enemy.
Phew, that post is almost as long as one of the captains!!!
Hi, and sorry for not getting back to you all sooner.
Thanks Lord Borak and Noma for your input, it's actually been a huge help.
I sympathise Lord Borak, I remember just throwing my Ravening Hordes book away together with my terror of the Lichmaster and bloodbath at Orcs drift boxes! Do you remember the citadel compendiums when they had the Kaleb Dark comic strip in them?
Well, after a couple of cheeky ebay bids and some perseverence I've ended up with the following models, curtesy of a guy who's getting rid of everything he has and wanted a quick job lot sale!
Archeon, A daemon prince, Wulfrik, Sorcorer of chaos, Exalted champion of Khorne, A blood thirster, Hell Cannon, Warshrine and a Limited edition rulebook.
Total troops are as follows:
2 Lords on Juggernaut (I just love these models)
2 lords on Demonic Steed
24 Chaos Knights
24 Chaos Warriors
15 marauder Horsemen
51 Chaos Marauders
10 Chaos warhounds
3 Chaos Trolls
Now, the two guys who I'm probably going to play have the following:
Guy 1 : Orc and Goblin Army - but will be working on a High elf army also - ( I really do dislike those pointy eared do gooders!)
Guy 2 : Dwarf army but will also be working on Lizard man. Funnily enough decided when I told him i'd be fielding chaos, chaos and more chaos!
I'm going to try to break the army down into 1000, 1500, and 3000 point sets, so I can hopefully just add models to the basic 1000pt setup.
based on what I've got, your thoughts would be really apprreciated, I'm looking at a job lot of marauders, which if I won, would bring the total up to a nice round 100 chaos marauders - but if I don't need them I won't bid. From what you have both said, I think I have enough cavalry to be getting on with, and this lot will take till christmas to paint anyway!
Sorry for the delay in posting back!
Lord Borak, Ravening Hordes was released in 1985 and was the first book of 'army lists'. It was pretty mental really, 12 man orc stone throwers with a 10" template for example!
Chaos got a monster great deal as you could pour points into Chaos mutations for your heroes- and they were stackable, so if you rolled chaos legs (12" movement ) twice it doubled!
It was 2nd edition - early days! Really about the only thing close to chaos was the Nippon Armies Samurai units.
Anyway, back to the present day...
So, based on an initial 1500pts I've initially decided on this:
50 marauders In one unit 270 points
Mark of Khorne
24 Chaos Warriors 414 points
Mark of Khorne
24 Chaos Warriors 414 points
Mark of Khorne
Total 1098 points
Hell Cannon 205 points
L2 Sorceror 195 points
Mark of Tzeentch
3rd Eye of tzeentch
Total Points: 1498
Your thoughts are really appreciated on this, my thoughts were that if I went for a 2000 points then I could add knights, perhaps another unit of halberd Chaos Warriors and change the lvl 2 for a lvl4, but essentially, wizard aside, keep the above as my core battleforce.
One of the things i'm not really clear on, is which takes precedence- army book or main rule book?
The reason I ask is because if the rule books' ratio's are anything to go by then I could theoretically throw in a sorcorer lord with the remaining points, but if I look at the army book I cant until at least 2000 points.
musicians and standards (including magic ones) are pretty standard choices for our army at any point range these days. and if your going to bunker your sorcerer in a unit, then a champion for that unit is standard as well(will of chaos means your sorcerer will have to issue and accept challenges he may not win unless you have a champion to do it for him) at 1500 youve got alot of hitting power in this build, and plenty of wounds to soak some fire, but 2 units of 24 warriors might be alittle much in the beef department. alot of people(myself included) will go 1 unit of 18 with halberds MoK and a banner of eternal flame to be the hammer and a unit of 18-24 with MoT and HW/S combo for a 3+/5++ save to be the anvil. give that anvil unit a blasted standard and theres not much that can mess with them. the points you could save by droping one unit down to 18 would be enough to toss out your command upgrades and round out the core of the list. the sorcerer looks pretty good, but swap the enchanted shield for a charmed shield. that way his first miscast gets eaten up by that fancy 2+ save. people will tell you to pick a lore other than tzeentch, but on a level 2 with the third eye, i think its the best.
generally speaking, the basic rule book takes precedence over our army book except in 2 situations. the first being the erratas/FAQs. download them on the GW site. the second being for the cost of common magic items. use the cost listed in our book for magic items. usually that means we get screwed out of a few points. looking at your L2 sorc listed, hes actually 215 points.
as for expanding your army to 2000, your on the right track. make the sorc a sorc lord, buy an exalted hero battle standard barer and maybe fit a unit of knights if you can.
Thanks Shoe, I'm recalculating as we speak. Would you recommend that I bunker my sorceror in the Tzeentch handweapon and shield unit? (Mark of Tzeentch and greater numbers)
thats what i would suggest. itll keep him alive longer and maybe keep him out of combat too. also, because 6x3 or 6x4 is our optimal formation, a unit of 17, or 23 will save you a few points here and there, as they will be at their full ranks with a character bunkered.