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  1. #1
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    four way battle, 2000pts. which list!?

    Hi everyone, sorry, this isnt an army list as such, but a precursor to one. ive got to make a 2000pt list for a four way battle. the opposition are:

    lizardmen: (im expecting a 2nd gen slaan and alot of skinks)

    high elves: (will probably be mainly cavalry, magic heavy, 2 bolt throwers)

    dark elves: (same as high elves, but may also include a dragon :eek: )

    So im unsure what chaos army to field. Im currently thinking about a tzeentch army of sorts, as the magic would be as potent as any on the field and give also give me some flexibility and range. also being able to make all my sorcerers dangerous in close combat i hope will give me enough tactical leverage to hit where i want and do damage.

    The tzeentch list looks like a bit like this:

    Lord of tzeentch on disc
    x3 aspiring champions tzeentch
    x3 units of knights of tzeentch
    x5 screamers

    (champions in the units of knights)

    Now, i like it, but it just looks a bit thin on the ground. It does have power though. I cant afford to lose the champions for the PD and magic missiles, and i need a lord for his range of spells. I was thinking perhaps having more champions instead of a lord, give one a spell familiar and use some power stones.

    Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.


    Now, sorry to drag on, but my second option is an all khore (well almost all khorne) army. rather than trying to counter with magic, just negate it all together. my khorne list looks something like this:

    x2 Sorcerers (4 dispel scrolls)
    x5 units of knights of khorne
    x5 units of warhounds
    x8 furies
    x4 screamers

    I know, its cheesy. Pls excuse it, im just looking to win, all the other armies will be fielding their most powerful/cheesy combinations too. Ok, the khorne list, i really like it. Its more balanced then the tzeentch one, but with 2 elven armies outmanouvering me and shooting me franticly, i dont know if its flexible enough. It is pretty fast though, and warhounds should help with being shot at. We all know aswell, that if it went the right way with this army it could be extremely destructive. Again, any comments would be great.

    Thanks, thats it. please dont hesitate to suggest ruthless cheesy tactics, thats what im after. I mean, thats what chaos are all about :p

    If winning wasnt an issue, id rather field the tzeentch list, because i never have before, and i like the idea of having magic and clost combat power. But at the end of the day, id rather field the list thats going to win.

    p.s. i was also thinking about a tzeentch demon army with horrors as core, any comments?

    Cheers, thanks for reading.

    Will


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  3. #2
    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will_sanders
    Lord of tzeentch on disc
    x3 aspiring champions tzeentch
    x3 units of knights of tzeentch
    x5 screamers
    Too many characters in this army, I know you've said you need them for the magic dice, but you'd do fine with one less champion (there's also the power familiar and Marks of Tzeentch to generate your dice). Then you could perhaps afford to have some, oh I dunno, infantry?...
    If you're that worried about enemy magic, why don't you give dispel scrolls to some or all of these characters like you have with the Sorcerers in the 'Khorne' army?
    Quote Originally Posted by will_sanders
    Now, i like it, but it just looks a bit thin on the ground. It does have power though. I cant afford to lose the champions for the PD and magic missiles, and i need a lord for his range of spells. I was thinking perhaps having more champions instead of a lord, give one a spell familiar and use some power stones.
    Remember that magic is highly unreliable and the more spells you try to cast means more potential miscasts, which could spell disaster for your characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by will_sanders
    x2 Sorcerers (4 dispel scrolls)
    x5 units of knights of khorne
    x5 units of warhounds
    x8 furies
    x4 screamers

    I know, its cheesy. Pls excuse it, im just looking to win, all the other armies will be fielding their most powerful/cheesy combinations too. Ok, the khorne list, i really like it. Its more balanced then the tzeentch one
    Yes it's very cheesy and I've already said what I think about armies like this here (2000pt Khorne Cavalry). There's no need for it, you can make a perfectly competitive army without resorting to forces like this one.
    And what exactly is it that you've got against infantry? There's not one unit in either of these armies.
    Quote Originally Posted by will_sanders
    p.s. i was also thinking about a tzeentch demon army with horrors as core, any comments?
    If you're planning a daemon army, you'd be better off using the Daemonic Legion from the Storm of Chaos book.

    Just as a final thought, if this is a four way battle (as in all four players fighting each other) what's to stop players forming un-spoken alliances and ganging up on other players? I've played a few three way games and they were all so crap that I vowed never to play multiplayer games again. :hmm: Whatever you do I don't think you'll have much enjoyment out of this game.
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

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    Yeah, i know, i dont really like infantry. for me they just equal twice the time being shot at and targeted with magic. i see your point though, do you think infantry would work? i also feel that if im going to have any infantry, it should be all infantry. i dont know, i feel that if youre going to get into close comabt with an enemy you want to do it in one or two moves, rather than send something forward to get dealt with by an entire army.

    i do take your point though, alot of infantry would do a fair job, im slightly worried about bolt throwers, but they would definately stay there. my only qualm is their manouverability in a battle against two elven armies.

    im not too bothered about alliances being formed and broken during the battle. two of the other players have already come to me about ganging up on the other. hehe. theyre friends, so it doesnt matter. i have to win though! well, i dont, but i'd like to

    also, do you think i should go tzeentch or khorne in the context of the other armies? heh, asking 'tzeentch lord'

    thanks m8.

  5. #4
    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    I guess it partly comes down to personal preference, I like infantry because of all the combat red bonuses you get for free (like ranks and outnumbering). Whereas with cavalry, although they get into combat much quicker, you don't usually get those free bonuses, so you have to rely on kills (and your banner of course). Plus the fact that infantry are chearper per model, so if one gets shot dead, it's not such a big loss as a dead knight would be. There's also no reason why you can't combine infantry and knights, you'd have less of both of course, but your tactical options would be increased (as would the enemies targets, so hopefully they wouldn't shoot your knights all the time).

    I don't mind which chaos faction you decide to use in this game, both are quite capable of winning when used right (and with a little luck of course). You could also go super-cheesy and have an undivided general leading Tzeentch sorcerers, screamers and infantry, with Khorne knights supporting. Then you'd have all the power dice and dispel dice you could ever want!

    Seriously though, I'd only do a cheesy army if your opponents are going to be cheesy as well, under normal conditions you should always go for a fair and balanced army (you don't want to be labelled as a power gamer do you?!)
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

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    Hey, ive just come up with an infantry idea. you make good points, here it is:

    aspiring chamion of tzeentch (halberd, power stone, dispel scroll)
    aspiring chamion of tzeentch (halberd, power stone, dispel scroll)
    aspiring chamion of tzeentch (halberd, power stone, dispel scroll)
    aspiring chamion of tzeentch (halberd, power stone)

    17 warriors of tzeentch (std bearer, halberds)
    17 warriors of tzeentch (std bearer, halberds)
    17 warriors of tzeentch (std bearer, halberds)
    17 warriors of tzeentch (std bearer, halberds)

    PD:14 (+8 in power stones) DD:6 DS:3

    I know, it looks extreme, but i think its strong. the champions in the units of warriors (ranked 6 wide, 3 deep). i dont know whether to go for halberds or great weapons though. i think halberds, but thats all im unsure about. what do you think? i bet you dont think it'll work

    i think ive covered all the angles against lizardmen, HE and DE. i reckon my strength characteristics can deal with cavalry and infantry pretty easily. i just hope my friend doesnt field a dragon! noxious breath!

    i tell you what aswell, i'd hate to see that coming towards me whatever army i was
    Last edited by will_sanders; July 28th, 2005 at 03:29.

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    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    It could work, but the warriors need shields for the best armour save (it'll help against shooting too, if all they've got it heavy armour, they'll drop like flies to heavy shooting and against hard combat opponents). They should be in a four or five-model wide formation for maximum rank bonus (especially since they'll have Aspiring champions with them). That's just what I'd do with them though.

    With the champions, I don't think they need the all those power stones. As you've got enough regular power dice to use already, I'd go with either more dispel scrolls or some magic weapons for those champions.

    Even if you mate does have a dragon, it won't necessarily come after you, he's got two other opponents to deal with as well! So don't worry too much about it.
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

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    yeah, im just worried that because all my sorcerers are lvl 2 using 3 power dice to cast spells wont be enough. i think that those 5 dice to confirm a spell when i need it would be useful. i know what you mean though, maybe i'll get another dispel scroll and lose a stone.

    yeah, i'd love to give my warriors shields, but i cant afford to. i just dont have the points. sigh, i think im just going to have to find them somwhere else. i do feel that i need halberds though, as strength 4 attacks against cavalry just isnt going to do anything. also, should i give my champs great weapons or halberds? after your answer on the rules forum (thanks very much by the way) im questioning GW. however, would it matter so much if the champions had them and not the troops?

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    Hey tzeentch lord, i've had the four way now, and though you might be interested. also, some things cropped up that i dont know how to deal with cheers.

    I went with an all cavalry chaos army:

    2 lvl1 sorcerers: (x4 dispel scrolls)

    6 chosen knights of khorne

    5 knights of khorne + exalted champ of khorne

    5 knights of slaanesh + exalted champ of slaanesh (rapturous std)

    8 knights of nurgle

    each unit was screened with warhounds

    HE and DE went for each other, i came in behind HE and lizardmen came in behind DE. it ended up being a pile up in one corner: i had all my units left (minus a couple of casualties from shooting and some warhounds which had fled) lizardmen had the slaan in temple guard, loads of skinks and 1 units of saurus left. dark elves had a unit of cold ones and a dragon.

    Im a lizardmen and a chaos player, so i was disgusted when the dragon charged the unit of 20 temple guard and went straight through it, slaan and all!

    i ended up charging the dragon with 2 units of cavalry and killed it, thank god. i ended up winning! all lizardmen had left was a unit of saurus and skinks, which were easy to deal with.

    It went pretty well actually, although i didnt get into combat for ages, and when i did the battle was almost over!


    Anyway, ive got to play a 3000pt lizardmen HE battle, and im worried about dragons. the only thing i can think of is a scar vet in the front rank of temple guard. i cant think of anything else. thanks alot m8, any comments would be great. cheers.

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