Welcome to Librarium Online!
ok, i've never actually played the game before, but i have read up on the rules and viewed several posts on these and other forums.
Based on that I came up with this list and i'd like to know if it could hold its own and not be cheesy. Some items contradict what i've read but i included or didnt include them based on lore and personal tastes. anyway here is the list.
Chaos Lord - 450 Pts
Mark of Tzeentch; General
Mirror of Knowledge, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Rending Sword, Enchanted Shield
-14 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch - 248 Pts
Shield; Standard; Musician
Aspiring Chaos Champion - 230 Pts
Undivided; Battle Standard
Banner of the Gods
-14 Chaos Warriors Undivided - 228 Pts
Shield; Standard; Musician
Chaos Sorcerer - 170 Pts
Undivided; Lore of Fire; Magic Level 2
Dispel Scroll x2
Chaos Sorcerer - 170 Pts
Undivided; Lore of Shadow; Magic Level 2
2x Chaos Chariot of Tzeentch - 280 Pts
2x (6) Chaos Warhounds - 72 Pts
Spawn of Chaos - 60 Pts
(6) Chaos Furies - 90 Pts
Casting - 14, Dispel - 7
Total - 1998
The lord and champ are on foot in the warrior units below them making 5x3 blocks (i know its 4 to make a rank but i like 5 wide for personal taste and i heard thats the way 7th ed is, but mostly because im shading the base flocking to form a tzeentch or undivided symbol in the ground when setup correctly).
I dont have the staff of change because I wanted the eye and mirror without making another tzeentch champion, and with my luck the staff will burn out on my first reroll.
The spawn is in just for kicks (love the randomness of it)
Hounds screen warriors, chariots on flanks, sorcs hang back some and furies get the odd balls/machines or screen for sorcs.
I could have used marauders, but the lore makes me think of them more as weekend chaos and not died in the wool chaos... so i have no respect for them and refuse to field any (and I hate painting human flesh)
I know it could be a better list but im just looking for a good list to paint and one that I wont get hosed with or be called a chedder king.
I type too much i thinks
Not bad for a first list, very tricky, but here's a few thoughts.
The golden eye will be fairly useless if your caracter is mountless and in a unit. The Staff Of Change is a nice asset to a chaos lord, (especially if you can avoid a miscast on you first roll, the miscast table will be rater nasty in the next edition) and a great weapon or halberd will make him a threat to anyone or anything. Invest the last 35 points in either the Gaze Of The Gods, or an Armour Of Damnation
I think you will generate enough power dice with your tzeench units caracters, to the point where you could drop the second sorcerer for a unit of undivided minotaurs to maximise your banner of the gods they should be great with an 8 rerollable.
Anywho, I like the selection, but tone down you magic a bit, and you won't pass off as a cheese master with 11-12 power dice, wich is standard for Tzeench.
The spawn could always be put away for some screamers, they'll add to your speed along with those furies.
Wolf_pack has made some good suggestions already (so I may repeat what he's already said), but as a hardcore Tzeentch player, I feel I must share my battlefield experience with an aspiring Tzeentch general such as yourself!No problem, even I had to start somewhere! (though that was with undead, not much success, so we won't go there...). Here's a couple of pieces of advice for a starting player; firstly, being chaos, everything is expensive, so try no to overdo it with characters, you need the manpower! Numbers count for a lot in Warhammer, so tiny units of troops will get their backsides kicked in new and interesting ways. Secondly, most opponents will expect to face your tiny units of troops. So turning up with two or three large, solid blocks of tough infantry will make them start to sweat. Thirdly, Screamers are absolutely awesome! They are so useful to us that I always take a unit of 5 in every army I use. Nothing gets rid of War machines, crossbowmen/handgunners and enemy wizards like a squadron of these babies. They are the one saving grace of Tzeentch daemons, the rest are so crap it's embarrassing...Originally Posted by KadrisAs Wolfpack said, the Golden Eye is only needed when your character is out on his own, either on foot or riding a disc or dragon. When he is within a unit, small arms can't target him and he'll get a 2+ "Look Out Sir!" save if the dishonourable enemy try to snipe at him with cannons or bolt throwers! The Staff of Change is excellent, but not something you cannot do without (forget about the new edition for now, it's not out yet), sometimes it's best to give him magic armour and a nice magic sword to kill the enemy the old fashioned way!Originally Posted by Kadris
As for his bodyguard, 15 warriors is okay, it's about the very minimum that you should ever take. Ideally you want units of 18-20, so your full +3 rank bonus doesn't start to suffer early in the game.I feel you have a few too many characters here for a 2000 point game (three is enough really, especially as you've taken a very expensive lord) . I'd drop the Death sorcerer and give the Mark of Tzeentch to the Army Battle Standard Bearer. Also, swap one of the dispel scrolls for the Spell Familiar on the Fire sorcerer. Three lore of Fire spells can do some nice reliable damage! Finally, you don't need a standard bearer in the second unit of warriors. They already have a standard in the form of the Army Standard bearer. A unit can only ever get a maximum of +1 for having a banner, so even if it's got the army standard and it's own banner, you still only get +1 to your combat res.Originally Posted by KadrisThese are all fine support units, but you could do with a unit of heavy hitters. Check out the beasts book for some ideas, Minotaurs, Chaos Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Chaos Knights, Dragon Ogre Shaggoths, are all great shock units.Originally Posted by KadrisHmm, nice idea, might steal it myself... :huh:Originally Posted by KadrisAh, I was young and foolish once... I'm not quite sure what you're going on about with the wool and everything, but Chaos Marauders are superb, don't be fooled by the fact that they aren't as uber as all of the other chaos units, they are still excellent infantry. I always take a unit of 20-25 Marauders, led by an Aspiring champion. This gives me a big unit of solid troops with +3 rank bonus, +1 for a banner, usually another +1 for outnumbering, they have hand weapons, light armour and shields for a 4+ armour save, making them suprisingly resilient, and the champion and chieftain are there to kick ass once the enemy have had their go.Originally Posted by Kadris
Also, because they're 'only' Marauders, many opponents will underestimate them. So many times have players thrown light cavalry, skirmishers or a small unit of infantry at them to 'see them off'. Only for their troops to be crushed and pursued halfway across the board! My Marauders have stood their ground when even the Chaos Warriors have fled, facing and holding against hordes of undead, herds of beastmen and regiments of cavalry. So remember, not only are Marauders good, they're also cheap, you can get a unit of 20 with sword, shield, light armour and full command for only 165 points! Can't say fairer than that!
Last edited by Tzeentch Lord; June 28th, 2006 at 14:35.
"Peace, through superior firepower."
Good stuf, but I'd like to point out somthing. If his BSB gets the mark, he'll have to loose banner of the gods.
oooo, lots of helpful info!
Based on more reading into several points you guys have posted i've modified the list (or overhauled, not sure).
Chaos Lord - 593
Mark of Tzeentch; General; Shield, Chaos Runesword, Armour of Damnation
in a Chaos Chariot of Tzeentch - 140
Chaos Chariot of Tzeentch - 140
Chaos Sorcerer - 176
Lore of Fire; Level 2; Steed Mount
Dispel Scroll, Spell Familiar
15 Chosen Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch - 415
Shield; Full Command w/ Blasted Standard
6 Chaos Warhounds - 36
5 Screamers of Tzeentch - 165
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, Light Armour - 298
3 Chaos Ogres, 2ndWeapon - 117
Spawn of Chaos - 60 Pts
Not sure if i overdid it on the special/rares, but to my understanding its ok.
After reading up on magic i found that i cant cast while in CC (unless i misread this in which case he'll go in the chosen replacing the champion) so i stuck the lord in a chariot who will ghost/assist the other chariot. I dont know if it does but if the eye wards for the chariot too i'll have that instead of the armor, but since shooting randomizes vs character too i'd think it does.
I also put the sorc on a mount for mobility since i removed the aspiring and other sorc (kinda miss the banner of gods, but i can always put it back in for 2250 games) and i also gave the now chosen warriors blasted banner.
So i guess my plan is to front line the shaggoth, ogres and spawn; while on one flank (hiding behind the ogres) is my chariots and the hounds screen the warriors on the other flank with the sorc hiding behind everyone with screamers... somewhere.
I decided not to take the staff still, partly because i'm trying to make a "board marker" for a miscast mishap showing a crater with a pair of smoking boots in the center (inspiration via a post by Tzeentch Lord, so feel free to snag mine on the bases).
My only concern is my dispell pool, so if eye doesnt ward chariot i might put a scroll on the lord instead of the armor.