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this goes out to experienced chaos players. Please rate my army.
I want to have an all-round 2000pt army that can take on every other army,
not just a charge in and fight thing (see tactics below):
Chaos General undivided,
Flail, Shield, Chaos Steed with barding, Helmet of many eyes, Gaze of the Gods
goes with chosen knights
Mark of Nurgle, Breath Weapon
goes on his own
Heavy armor, Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of the Beasts (+1 Attack)
goes with bestigors
20 Marauders with full command
1 Marauder horseman, Musician, Throwing Axes
4 Chosen Knights undivided, Standard, Musician
5 Chosen Knights of Khorne, Standard, Musician
3x5 Chaos Hounds
10 Gors + 10 Ungors, Full Command
10 Bestigors of Khorne, Standard, Musician
PD:2, DD: 5, no scrolls
- The General is expensive, but I don't want to leave home without Ld9 and Battle Standard
as chaos Ld is quite bad and these units are too expensive to run away from a bunch of skeletons. Also, he gets a flail to have S7 against chariots (BTW: found out that fast S7 is rare now!)
- Magic defense is quite weak, but I don't know how to change this.
- Demon, Screamers and Horsemen have short ranged weapons (terror, breath, throwing axes, flyby attack) and chase light Cav, lone characters and so on. I need that because I have no magic to get rid of nasty thingslike pistolliers or HE-Mages on Eagles with book of Hoeth :ninja: . They also work fine against low ld (Terror - O&G, Scaven, Beasts, Oger) or low toughness (Breath - Elves!), and almost every army belongs to one of both groups!!
- Beast Herds go through terrain and can hold up units for the knights or act as effective screen.
- I know, there is one mistake: Can't take the demon without a nurgle unit. Suggestions?
"The fast and the furious" - Land demon to one and screamers to the other side of an enemy unit. Watch them die to crossfire if they fail their terror test. If not, use breath weapon and maybe force another panic test.
"18S6 - the number of the beast" - Most people make the mistakes and focus on the chaos knights only. I let them charge my chosen and bring the Bestigors in place. My general strikes first, killing three models. The chosen hold (also, battle standard is near). Than the beast charge in with 18S6 and 5S4
attacks - ouch!
You need a Unit with the mark of nurgle to make your exalted nurgle demon legal.
well, you cant have 2 units of chosen knights. downgrade one unit (or just delete it) and use the points to get a units of nurglings, to make to daemon prince legal.
4 knights to guard your general is useless, coz without unit strength 5, the can single him out anyway. in less than 3k, id leave your general on foot with a warrior body guard, so that hes harder to pick out.
use the mark of khorne for you kagic defense, give it to the wargor if you can, and stick him woth the beastmen.
numbers is a big problem with chaos, and you've made it worse by cramming it full of characters. take the lord or a deamon prince, but not both (too many points!!!). and try to get yourself a solid base of infantry.
also, its sometimes easier and more fun to pick a themes army, either one particular mark, or marauder only, cav only, mass daemons, etc....
dude, youve picked the wrong army if you dont want to charge in and fight!! we're one of the best CC armies, so get shooting, other than magic, out of your head!
seriously, if you want an elite force with lots of different tactical options, id suggest wood elves. they are damn good now, with good shootingm great monsters, and wild riders must be some of the best cav ive ever seen.
well the lord is fine as he has mark of undivided he can re-roll the stupiity test for the helm of many eyes.
However, i dont think the gaze of the gods is worthwhile. because your lord always strikes first, its better to just kill your opponent rather that giving him an expensive ward and risking him turning to a spawn. best item for the job is hellfire sword for 75 points so with the helm thats his full 100 item points allowance. he will therefore strike first causing +D6 flaming wounds per wound - and a lord starts with 5 s5 attacks so hes bound to kill any opponent with the hellfire sword! Theres not much that can surive that - giants and geater daemons will be destroyed in the first round of combat, so he won't need a ward save and will slaughter an enemy characters instantly.
next up: your exalted aemon, it takes up hero choices and is vulnerable to instability, therefore a total waste of points IMO. take 1 exalted champion and a level chaos sorcerer insted. you need the dispelk scroll so arm your sorcerer with some.
chosen knights are far FAR too expensive for their worth. normal knights kick ass anyway and cost far less. then with the points saved have 2 spawn (2 for 1 rare choice). your army would then have unbreakable monsters guarding is flanks. A much better choice IMO rather than wasting points making your knights chosen. besides your only allowed one chosen knight unit per army so its not legal.
lastly i assume that the "1 Marauder horseman, Musician, Throwing Axes" is a typing error as you need atleast 5.
I dont like yor army at all - its not how i play as you seem to reply on small units of expensive elites. I prefer a monster army backed up by fast attacking hard hirring forces.
I normally take a unit of mounted daemonettes, a unit of mounted marauders. A chaos charriot or two, 2 spawn, a chaos giant, and a mixture of marauder and chaos warriors on foot led by wizards. I also wouldn't go to battle without a swarm of furies at my disposal too as they are excellent for picking off small units and artillery crew - but if you decide to take some take atleast 8.
But then again my favourite god is nurgle so im more disposed to take monsters than most chaos players - i feel a chaos army should be a horde of mutated monsters, not ranks of powerful knights - bu thats just my opinion.
hope that helps
I like the feel of the army, it is good to have a lot of diversity. I especially appreciate the fight all comers approach, it is much more ambitious and challenging than catering to a specific army IMO. Here's some thoughts if you want to fight all comers.
1. Screamers are really expensive. 6 of them is probably overkill. I'd drop to 3-4. Furies might serve you better. The flyby attack is cute, but don't count on it killing very much, and don't buy 6 screamers to increase the number of S3 hits, just treat those as added benefit.
2. You don't have a lot of power in wooded terrain. A hero in the beast herd or a centigor unit could help a lot here. As previously mentioned, you can't have two units of chosen knights. You could scrap one and buy centigors or even another beast herd.
3. You probably shouldn't have a standard in 10 bestigor, they are small and fragile. They are best as a flanking unit. I don't much like them, you'd probably get better value with some ogres or something. The BSB needs the MoK to join the Bestigor anyway.
4. You only have two units which can actually take a charge, and neither of them apparently have any armor. You should give your marauders shields and light armor, so they get a 4+ save. I'd increase the number of ungors in the beast herd, try to get closer to 25 of them so you can take some casualties and still have a rank bonus.
5. 5 DD with no scrolls may get you into trouble against even medium magic. I'd see if you can't up that a little bit.
Hope some of that is useful!
Arena of Death Champion: Nexim of the Guldskullz Tribe. Fear my wrath!
THX all for the replies.
I need 6 screamers for the crossfire rule. You have to have US5 to auto-kill. BTW: Demon and Screamers worked very well in my last match against HE, forcing terror test and killing his swordmasters due to terror+crossfire and his HE-Master-Mage on eagle due to flyby!!
You are damn right: the Khorne knights are not chosen, and the beast hero has a mark of khorne as well.
You are also damn right: non of my unit could really take a charge, what is extremely nasty against HE. Have to change this. He had the un-avoidable unit of dragon princes with +1D6+1 combat res.
I won in the end by a lot of maneuvering with dogs and light cav, but it got really close.
Bestigors get run down much to simple, so they will leave my army. Barbies get light armor + shield. I will include another large beast herd instead and skip the battlestandard bearer. He didn't pay off, and re-rolling breaktest on 3 is not very funny. Beast Herds are awesome. They can take on charges from any direction, pace through woods, face shooters (although "Ungors get killed first" is a serious problem with panic tests), can not easily be march blocked (can attack in all directions). But the general has to stay near.
Question: do beast herds negate rank bonus?
To answer your question, no Beast Herds do not negate ranks as they are skirmishers, although they do get their own ranks.
As for your list I agree with the previous posters about downgrading your chaos knights from chosen, and perhaps having only one unit of 5 to cover your general. This would give you the points to up the Bestigors to 14 strong, add a couple of more hounds, and perhaps a chariot.
In essence your army may need a rethink. Why not try this:
Lord of Chaos Undivided: 295pts (goes with knights)
Chaos Steed with barding,
Helm of many eyes,
Gaze of the Gods
Exhalted Daemon: 320pts
Mark of Nurgle,
Steam of Corruption
Wargor: 184pts (with Bestigors)
Mark of Khorne
Battle Standard Bearer
Banner of the Beasts
20 Marauders: 165pts
20 Marauders: 165pts
6 Marauder Horsemen: 108pts
5 Chaos Knights: 215pts
Beast Herd: 151pts
12 Gors (with two hand weapons)
8 Ungors (with spears)
14 Bestigor Herd: 243pts
Mark of Khorne
This gives you a lot more wounds, and some fast moving units to disrupt, as well as making your daemon more survivable.
Let me know :ninja:
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Thanks Gingerninja! Especially for posting a list that stays close to my ideas. I prefer this kind of critics to those "Forget all what you did and try my list instead".
What I like about your changes is that we now have 3 units that my hold a charge.
What I don't like is that magic defense is know really low, and I don't want to drop the sreamers.
I tried test games with furies before, and they simply cannot fullfill the same role. Screamers are by far the best unit in the game to hunt lonely mages, even in light cav. These mages (HE esp) do not dare to move within 20" of a 6-8 screamer unit because they fear flyby (even 4S3 kill a HE mage on average!). I found out that this "offensive" way to deal with agressive casters is even better than dispelling: they just don't get 24" inches and LOS to your units what is now essential for must attack spells. Just place the screamers in a position in front of your battle line, e.g. behind a wood. Doesn't help against Vampires and Khemri, though.
I think I will start from your post, drop the bestigors and the beast hero altogether and go for another large herd, screamers and khorne knights again.
Just a note, beast herds do not get there own rank bonus against everything, as it specifies they rank up in ranks of 4 if they charge units where they would normally only get fewer models. Under the new rules you need to have 5 in a rank to get rank bonus. Just something to bear in mind if they are charging something in the flank or against single monsters/ war machines.
As for the army composition I would recomend leaving the daemon at home, he's a lot of points for a 2000pt game. I would also drop the screamers for more maurader horsemen or furies. As for magical defence, all you need is 1 or 2 level 1 wizards with 2 dispel scrolls.
When i make an army i believe in getting models on the table, rather than having tooled up characters, although i like the idea of the lord with helm of many eyes and the hellfire sword that slythra recommended, that will kill pretty much anything. Also, one other thing BUY A BATTLE STANDARD BEARER!!!!! reroll break tests within 12" is an awsome thing even if you are normally LD8