2000 Point, Khorne (Level on the cheese o' meter?) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    2000 Point, Khorne (Level on the cheese o' meter?)

    So first off, I spend too much time on this site and not enough time playing. I read a lot of the posts and I am a bit compulsive so I wanted to make a Khorne list. Rate the army, rate what it would do well against, what it would do poorly against, and on a scale of 1-10 what is it's cheese factor.

    Aspiring Champion of Khorne: Shield, Mount (General)
    Aspiring Champion of Khorne: BSB, WB
    Aspiring Champion of Khorne: Shield

    Warhounds x6
    Warhounds x6
    Warhounds x5
    Warhounds x5

    Marauder Horsemen x5: Spear, Shield, Throwing Ax, Musician
    Marauder Horsemen x5: Spear, Shield, Throwing Ax, Musician

    Marauders x19: Light Armor, Shield, Full Command
    Marauders x19: Light Armor, Shield, Full Command

    Knights x4: Mark of Chaos Undivided

    Knights of Khorne x4: Champion
    Knights of Khorne x5: Champion

    Furies x7

    Hell Cannon


    OR drop the Undivided Knights, and the third character freeing up points for an Exalted Daemon
    OR drop the Mark of Khorne from the third character making him my general and replace the 4 knights with Mounted Daemonettes

    I figure I will try and avoid the table edge where the 'Daemon in Can' sits. That leaves marauders in the middle of the board, knights to a flank, Horsemen to try and march block, and very well trained dogs to stand in front of my men.

    ALSO! I need to get a Beasts of Chaos army book, so please say if you think my army should use any BoC units and why so I can motivate myself to go buy one.

    Thanks in advance!

    Last edited by The Evil Giraffe; July 19th, 2007 at 22:25.

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  3. #2
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    Well it's certainly unconventional...

    ...And it isn't cheesy. Say a cheese factor of 1. You've got plenty of dispel dice, so that's good.

    Your Knights units would do well to get full commands, as they are going to see heavy combat and you don't want to loose that nice frenzy to a loss or a draw.

    With so many warhounds I wonder if they are really going to be an asset to you, or if they are more likely to get in your way and provide your enemies with units to charge and break, allowing them to overrun into more valuable units of yours that you were hoping to charge with. Also, these units are all terribly vulnerable to missile fire and with their low Ld are unlikely to stick around after taking just two wounds. I appreciate that you intend to use them as a screen, but with their fragility, low leadership, and lack of manueverablity (since they aren't fast cavalry) I'm afraid that they will hurt you as much as help you.

    Marauder horsemen are always a good buy, in my opinion, though they are fragile and therefore I tend to not give them throwing axes, as these are so expensive and so seldom useful. Since your army has so few standards I think you should at least consider giving these units full command.

    Knights are always a good buy, though I think your units are a bit too small and would benefit from full command. I find that units of Chaos knights smaller than 5 or 6 models tend to be vaporized before they see combat, or at least rendered combat ineffective. Making one unit chosen (the best buy for Chaos Knights), giving them full command, and adding one or two models to each unit will ensure that these units will charge hard and win one combat after another.

    You might want to consider upgrading your furies to screamers for two reasons.
    1. Screamers are a lot tougher.
    2. Your Hellcannon - Allow me to explain. Because your hellcannon MUST charge if enemy units are within a certain proximity it is very vulnerable to being strung along by enemy fliers, infiltrators, fast cav, and so on. It is likely that the only unit you will have to spare to protect it will be your own flying unit and therefore you need them to be able to take on enemy light units (not just war machine crews) and win reliably. Screamers will do this. Furies won't.

    I see that you intend to use your marauders with their deep ranks and full command to contribute the CR you'll need to beat your enemy's core force. Presumably you intend to use a double envelopment or refused flank to surround the enemy and then flank them with knights and mounted marauders while the marauders on foot go straight in and carry the combat. I have been unimpressed with marauders in this capacity. In my opinion they are too fragile and weak to stand up to elite enemy infantry and therefore inappropriate as a core unit. Chosen Warriors of Khorne with shields (for the march) and two hand weapons (for the fighting) are much better in this capacity.

    Your Hellcannon is a straight toss up. It'll either do great and make you really happy, or it'll be decoyed away, eat it's handlers, or whatever, and prove to be quite useless and expensive. In my experience artillery is most useful when it is massed, so a single expensive piece of artillery is not as relieably useful as a few cheaper pieces. Two halfling hot pots might be more to the point.

    Here are your strengths as I see them right now: You're fast and you're resistant to magic. This should allow you to close with slower armies on your terms, annihilate their flanks and overwhelm their core.

    Here are your weaknesses as I see them: You're vulnerable to shooting, your core infantry units are weak, you have no offensive magic, and your characters are weak. A well-built dwarven gun line will blow away your hellcannon, vaporize your warhounds and mounted marauders, and will either defeat your knights then your marauders if you just close as fast as possible, or it will blast your knights then defeat your marauders in HtH if the Knights wait for the marauders before charging. The same holds true for armies with massive amounts of offensive magic (Lizardmen, some undead, some high elves, some wood elves) that can blow through your seven dispel dice without breaking a sweat.
    Obviously not having any offensive magic is nothing you can do anything about with a Khornite army, just remember your enemies have more shooting and magic than you and therefore the luxury of choosing the time and place of the engagement unless you successfully close.

    Your characters are weak is just a way of saying that aspiring champions of chaos are pretty tough, but yours are minimally equipped and they won't stand up to any really tough characters or enemy units. Trolls, other chaos characters, daemons, vampires, big monsters, and so on are all out of your league. If your enemy brings something like this to the table you don't have anything to deal with it, and that's a big problem, in my opinion.

    Your core infantry units are weak - low save, low strength, low speed - these are support units, not the core of an army. As it stands right now the only hard hitting units in your army are your knights. You've got 14 of them, counting your mounted champion. If your opponent can eliminate just seven or eight of these guys you're left with a bunch of light, weak units that are ok in a supporting role but just not able to go in and take on an enemy's core fighters. Basically, if you loose a few knights you're sunk. Once your opponents figure that out I think you're going to have a world of trouble. If your enemy puts their back to a corner and can stand up to a few charges by chaos knights (stubborn elite units, unbreakable units, swarms, and various other special stuff can all do this) they can cut through your light flankers and charge your chaos knights in the flank. Or they could just blow through your weak flankers and turn the table on you. With only a few small units of chaos knights as your real strength you have either strong flanks and no core, or a strong core and weak flanks, either way, you're in trouble.

    Overall my core complaint about this force is that you've taken a list which has hardiness and massive HtH combat abilities and used it to create a force that is maneuverable, fragile, and weak in HtH. The maneuverable is good, though it doesn't fit in with a core of marauder infantry, but the other two are bad, and I think you need to work to remedy them.

    Hope all this was helpful. Good luck!

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Evil Giraffe View Post
    So first off, I spend too much time on this site and not enough time playing. I read a lot of the posts and I am a bit compulsive so I wanted to make a Khorne list. Rate the army, rate what it would do well against, what it would do poorly against, and on a scale of 1-10 what is it's cheese factor.

    Aspiring Champion of Khorne: Shield, Mount (General)
    Aspiring Champion of Khorne: BSB, WB
    Aspiring Champion of Khorne: Shield

    In a small army like this, I think you'd be better off with two characters, a general and a BSB, tooled for war so you can hold your line more effectively.


    Warhounds x6
    Warhounds x6
    Warhounds x5
    Warhounds x5

    Good. Might be a bit much though, I'd run two or three units in a test game and see if you need more from there.

    Marauder Horsemen x5: Spear, Shield, Throwing Ax, Musician
    Marauder Horsemen x5: Spear, Shield, Throwing Ax, Musician

    Good. I personally love the throwing axes, just to piss of the units you're marchblocking. Drop the shields though, a 5+ armor save isn't enough to save 'em anyways. I don't use spears, but that's to keep my unit cheap.

    Marauders x19: Light Armor, Shield, Full Command
    Marauders x19: Light Armor, Shield, Full Command

    I'd try to boost these to 25 each, just so you can take a few casualties and not lose a point of rank bonus.


    Knights x4: Mark of Chaos Undivided

    Don't do enough if they're not chosen or marked with Khorne.

    Knights of Khorne x4: Champion
    Knights of Khorne x5: Champion

    Champions aren't not really necessary, I'd swap them out for a musician, you don't need these units running for the hills and not being able to rally.

    Furies x7

    I'd take 6 max, if you run 7, they're not all getting into combat, so it's a waste.

    Hell Cannon

    Never used one personally, though I've always wanted to.

    OR drop the Undivided Knights, and the third character freeing up points for an Exalted Daemon

    Daemons are really expensive, so I wouldn't.

    OR drop the Mark of Khorne from the third character making him my general and replace the 4 knights with Mounted Daemonettes

    I wouldn't. But that's just 'cause the fluff would nag at me.

    I figure I will try and avoid the table edge where the 'Daemon in Can' sits. That leaves marauders in the middle of the board, knights to a flank, Horsemen to try and march block, and very well trained dogs to stand in front of my men.

    I've been toying with setting up my main units (marauders and warriors) on an extreme flank, and letting the fast stuff marchblock the rest of the enemy army, so you get to deal with units without being flanked, a serious concern for small armies.

    ALSO! I need to get a Beasts of Chaos army book, so please say if you think my army should use any BoC units and why so I can motivate myself to go buy one.

    I don't see any strength 6 fighters in your army so minotaurs, dragon ogres and the like might be worth a look.


    Thanks in advance!

    I'm not going to give it a cheese rating, 'cause I think the term is thrown around way to much. I will say that I don't think the list is very competitive though, there's nothing really hitty, really solid, and the army is very small. You should stick around to see what other people think, but that's my essay. I really didn't mean to go on like that, sorry. :blush:

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