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I've got a mate who played Fantasy many years ago, and is thinking of starting up with a couple of us who have already decided to start. Just a quick question:
He goes on and on about how the old ~800 point Bloodthirster was a total monster and could wreck just about anything. I've had a look at the reference sheet for the current Bloodthirster and it seems to me that, while it's quite a hefty beast, he's not the destroyer of entire armies that my friend describes.
I was wondering if the Bloodthirster used to be a lot bigger and meaner than he is these days. The time frame I'm thinking of would be 10 to 15 years ago. Couldn't tell you what edition it was that my mate played in. My friend's described Toughness 10 and 10 Wounds, that sort of thing. He occasionally exaggerates a touch. But how much is he exaggerating in this case?
Well, in an older edition (I think it's 5th) he had strength 8 and toughness 7 (so not 10 there) but came with 10 wounds and 10 attacks ;?
So not too much exaggerated. But a lot of rules were quite different back then, so a comparison is a bit pointless :z
It ain't easy bein' green... :-)
good ol' times, that's the 4th edition
back then, frenzy DOUBLED the # of attacks
now frenzy only adds 1 attack to the base value...
(btw while khornate models had double attacks, i'd also tell you that the mark of slaanesh gave not only "immune to psychology" but directly "unbreakable" !!!)
and there were LOTS of different daemons for each god, that have subsequently been removed - also, daemons were plain killing machines
but hey -listen here- they had to be SUMMONED, so your precious bloodthirster could eventually never come down to the battlefield.
...and many rules were different, and all the stats were powerplay for every army...
now everything has been tuned down.
especially chaos daemons, who became quite useless imo, exceptions made.
It's better, it's shiny, it's warped...it's Chaos.
Just remember that khornate daemons weren't frenzied back then.
I think it was the Great Unclean One that had T10 and 10 wounds back in the old days. It really could take a cannon on the chin .
But also back in those days any army had access to Emperor Dragons (most of the stats were 9) and the like. Powerplay back then was on a whole different level to what it is now.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
the old 4th edition was a gud un,
yeah they have changed loads over the years, but hopefully they will let you use the deamons in the deamonic legions list in the nxt book coz those plagueriders were just too cool!!! and the deamon chariots were brilliant!!
i remember using a i think it was a 12man unit with full upgrade cost like 500+ points and take out like half an army on their own it was insane back then, i cant find the books now kinda bummed about that tho!! lol
Personally i think its a good thing that Fantasy headed away from a 'Herohammer' / 'Unithammer' style where a single character or unit could easily dominate. Not that im even old enough to remember those times, but from what ive heard, it sounds like Fantasy is a better game now that it was. If only GW didnt have to make any more changes...
well the tendency is recently inverting imo...
i'm gonna write a complaint post : just bear this please LOL
gw has recently put out an empire armybook that allows you to field too many unbreakable units: now tell me if this does make sense at all...especially for fluff:
hey sigmar's power may manifest through single heroes, chosen to confront with chaos, but it's a long way, from this, to fielding 4 priests who give unbreakable to one unit each; plus 2 unbreakable flagellant warbands.
whoa i just made a list with 6 unbreakable empire units... what??? ;?
imo the priest may be blind and faithful as much as he wants, but common empire soldiers are just men! why should they all stay there and be just slaughtered?
and now will come high elves, who ^always strike first^
sorry? always strike first? ;?
how could a soldier with a sword possibly hit first an enemy who charges him?
at this point, to be reasonable, gw should review the rules entirely, and state that troops using pole arms strike first when charged (because the length of the weapon creates a barrier between the defender and the offender)...this can eventually make sense -and imo this is a missing rule in warhammer fantasy-
the elves that always strike first just remember me about "the lord of the rings" movie intro, you know, at the very beginning, when on the anfauglith the orcs charge the elves and they all hit first (making a synched move, kinda dancing) with daggers or short swords -don't remember- LOL
elves were really cool and shiny back there but this is warhammer!
anyway...when chaos gets redone, i want at least khornate models to have their attacks doubled by frenzy. not to mention the old unbreakable for slaanesh...and so on...
It's better, it's shiny, it's warped...it's Chaos.
Priests are there to give the troops encouragmentand to show pure faith and unbending resolve, so i think its great!! and i think that its a kinda inspiring image to see them fight on against the odds, neway you can easily just dispel the unbreakable prayer of a priest so its not that bad really, i mean they are only power level four!!
also high elves with the stike first rule makes sense, if they then gave this too all elves the it would make more, elves have hightened senses and quicker reactions so its understandable that they can do that!! also bringing back the three levels of dragons is just too cool!!
What about those without? Khemri. Skaven. Greenskins. Brets (probably). Ogres. Empire.
Some of these (I'm thinking Khemri) would have enough problems with even the nerfed Dragons we've got currently, if you play them normally. A return to the superpowered Emperor Dragon days would be ridiculous. Khemri haven't got anything that could even scratch it, unless you mass-purchase Screaming Skulls. Which would mean you'd have to theme your whole army around killing the dragon, which kind of hints the game is unbalanced.
I don't mind the Empire having the unbreakable prayer. Anyone with a half-decent magic defence can stop it. Remember, Slaanesh have a spell that does the same thing, and that remains in play and can apply to Daemons. There are fluff reasons, it's in character, and it's not overpowered.
Don't like the sound of the new High Elves. Thankfully, everyone I know thinks of them as pyjama-wearing arrogant ponces, so it's all good.
Oh, and on topic? The old Bloodthirster was silly. xD
will give you that, but high elves do suffer with minimal armour and T3 across the whole army they arnt guna win any survivability contests!!
khermi have those pesky asp arrows tho so 2units of them firing a few spellsmaybe a casket of souls and then dragon will fall out the sky like a skydiver with no parachute!!
they arnt super powerd tho so we can be greatful they arnt back!! not like stats of 9across the line, so its not to bad,(thank god) it really comes down to how your opponent uses it, but they wudnt have put them in the game if they didnt try them out alot first!!
empire gets 'a' dragon, lol, but im also a green skin player so i know what its like to fight them, what you gotta think tho is if you kill it that is a massive chunk of your enemies offencive power gone and alot of points to, so its not that bad really!
your right about the bloodthirster lol!!