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ok, so heres hoping that when the official army list comes out they re-revise the marks of the gods. How do you think they should be updated?
I think they were ok to start with so heres my 2p.
Tzeentch - as it was, got to be magic related and was a nice boost.
Nurgle - surely something to represent their foul nature, fear causing or the like and a -1 to hit modifier
Slaneesh - something to represent their seductiveness, asf and -1 when testing to charge
Khorne - Frenzy/Hatred sounds good but you shouldn't lose it cos you lose a combat thats just silly to me when it is a gift from a god. Maybe a strength modifier instead?
(not overly familiar with the old marks so forgive me if i have regurgitated old stuff)
Also all should get immunity to fear, seems daft that a unit of chaos warriors wouldn't charge a few skeletons when it was them that probably killed them in the first place.
I think as they are wouldve been fine, just with some reduction in cost for Nurgle. The only reason Tze got nerfed is due to the removal of the LoTze, which will make a comeback when we see the new Mortals, as will Nur and Sla Lores.
Well this is the way i see it turning out
Khorne: Magic resistance + Killing blow or frenzy
Nurgle: fear + poisoned attacks
Tzeentch: some sort of wardsave, becoming a wizards was only in 6th, in 4th/5th ed you got a single reroll which you could add or minus from the dice
Slaanesh: If it goes back to how it used to be then unbreakable, i wouldnt be that suprised if it was ASF however.
Give back DD to Khorne! or at least MR..and leave the Frenzy not like in the Daemons..
Almost everything was good as it was on HoC , just give back the 9Ld like 5ED
i think they might give slannesh a exata +1I as this would show the speed of slannesh.
for khorne i think frenzy is guna stay but i think they souldnt loose it when they lose combat bringing in magic resistance would be much appricheated also.if they dont do this make a new lore (the wrath of khorne) full of spells like gives a unit killing blow or one like flameing sword of ruin even a new character (blood priest) who generates 2 dispell dice and has 50 pts of war gear with no offencive magic could be good!
for nugle i think fear is in for the new book but they may give some other rule (cloud of flies would bee cool as itcould be repusented with a -1 to hit modifyer to the enemy if not i think it coud be a magic item).
tzeench have been nurfed with these rules!(they need some saveing grace)
mabee the old +1pd was a little over powerd but at least let tzeench generalls be mages (they could let the generall add wizzard lvls at +35pts each up to lvl2 for exalted generalls and lvl4 for lords). but new lores would be great for all gods.
over all however i feel the only tweakes needed are to khorne to repusent his hate of magic and to tzeench to repusent his pure magic (he after all is the scorce of all magic!).
hope you agree.
It's not that Tzeentch is nerfed, it's just a new playing style. It truly isn't bad. A unit of 17 chosen of Tzeentch only 1 model has to pass a ward save to 'earn it's points back'. In a unit of 17 regular warriors of Tzeentch if you get 2 6+ ward saves you earn the points of that mark of the WHOLE unit back. It helps more than you think because you have both your armor and ward.
Shiny stuff Shminny stuff. If you can make a decent army that can hold up against most forces NOW, then you will be so much more set when the new book comes out. Use the list as a training period to hone in on your abilities to play the game without characters of doom. The army list isn't terrible just make the best of it. Complaining doesn't get anyone anywhere, especially in a game that is essentially world wide. The army itself shouldn't matter, it's all in the general's hands for most games.
They aren't going to change the list or take it back, whats done is done till November. In 5 month's we'll have the new book with new goodies. The essentials are still available and flexibility isn't all lost. Challenge yourself. Play with the new list, through wins and losses. Become a better tactician through brute force and your knowledge and use of the game mechanics.
Lots of different things could have been done, but this is what we are given.
I dare you to make yourself the best general you can be, without all the shinny things. Win through your knowledge and use of game mechanics.
Last edited by Donum Agri; June 11th, 2008 at 17:29.
All you Tzeentch players, i wouldnt get your hopes up, as i said, Tzeentch have only been warrior mages for one edition, as with anything that is abused it gets nerfed, personally i do think we are going back on ourselves. The Empire book is a good example of this, it hasnt added a single new thing to the game, all the "new" special characters are from the 5th ed book (granded they got new models, but still), outriders date back to 4th (atleast), same as the stank and waralter (well that was exclusive to a special character)
Daemons again are the same, i remember Fiends in 2nd ed 40k/ 4th ed fanatsy! VC did get a new unit however i think every army is going to get some form of large monster as a rare (with empire its the stank, not really a monster but more in line with the rest).
You can still play a heavy magic phase Tzeentch army. I run, with the new rules, a Tzeentch army with only 3 wizards, Lord and 2 Heroes. Personally I find this list to be MORE potent than the old list. I get 11 PD with 7 able to reroll the result everytime! You can also choose your lore depending on the enemy. The ward save is by no means a nerf! In at least 3 games it has made a unit of chosen NOT under half, denying victory points and another 2 times for regular warriors!
Play with the list. Don't sit on by computer screen to complain about how you wish it could be.
Madman, maybe the blood priest could have bound spells, a bit like warrior priests. They could shout one 'battle cry' a turn, and you could choose from things like unbreakable, killing blow, hatred, extra movement, and +1 strength. They would probably have a stat line a tiny bit worse than an aspiring champion, like 2 attacks, strength 4, toughness 4, 2 wounds, and could choose all the same equipment as a normal chaos hero.
For the tzeentch mark, I think it would be cool to have something like 1 re-roll per game for each unit with it. It feels kind of right for the god of change and trickery to me.
i wasnt having a go at ward saves (i have a 40k tzeench host 5+ invs rock) i was just compareing to old rules:thinking:...
yea a blood priest a bit like a worrior priest could be quite cool with a profile like a worrior on krak:vampire: could be nice or allow a asp champ to generate dsp dice and carry scrolls for 15pts on top of MoK could be in keeping with khornes lust for battle...