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I am just wondering what everyone does to deal with heavy shooting armies? With the verification of no flying units other than a Prince in the new book is our only option Marauder Horsemen?
In the store where I play I keep coming up against Skaven / Empire / Dwarf armies and aside from having an amazing game on the save dice I cannot seem to come close to a win. It helps considerably if I get to go first because it cuts the rounds I am getting laid into from 3 into 2. However if I do not go first the three rounds I eat missile fire has most likely killed 700+ pts worth of models before I ever roll the first offensive dice aside from Magic or the Hellcannon.
So I find myself with the only option I see being to take at least one 10 man unit of Marauder Horsemen to make a prayer bolt across the field to both draw fire and maybe takeout a machines crew. Just seems that even when I DO play Marauder Horsemen they eat pretty much 100% of the fire in the first turn and with their stellar save they more often than not die before reaching the enemy warmachine / gunline. I am wondering if in GW's quest to make WoC have the toughest combat units available they are completely gimping the army against range? I have to admit I like the breaking away of Chosen as their own unit and the addition of the Forsaken but was the cost of Furies a balanced trade out? Without the fast movement of Daemon units or the Flying of the Furies I am truly lost as to what GW expects to pulls this army through against ranged armies with a half competent general. Aside from bad rolls on his part and good AR saves by the chaos player it seems truly hopeless.
Any ideas appreciated, thanks.
I see what you are saying and entirely agree with you. warhounds of chaos are the best distractors if you place them in front but if the enemy untis are on a hill, i believe that they are able to see over the warhounds. I am as stumped as you are.
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I forgot to mention the option of screening but even so you just refer to the point I made about marauders eating alot of fire with little to no save. I usually field 10 pups in any army and will use them as 2 blocks of 5 for Knight screens when I have two units or one block of 10 to screen the one unit of knights I will ALWAYS be fielding.
I tend to forget screens and maruader horces when i play dwarfs i play 3 units of 12 warriors and a unit of knights (in 1500pts). I charged turn 2 with my exsalted champion and kinghts into a unit of quarrelers (admitedly this was more down to shoddy deployment on his part to tactical skill on my own). Other than that i take slanneshi or khorn so i dont care about shooting that much if 4 warriors get to a canon its dead! If 3 warriors with a banner get into combat with a shooty unit (empire handgunners for example) there dead! from combat res im looseing by 1 so its down to kills...
Yea its all about numbers against shooty armies (in my book anyway) also misfires will be a perminent feture of there shooting phase if they have so many canons /mortars /equivilent...
Im still not happy about no furries of flyers (curse you GW *shakes fist at sky*) im also not a big fan of maruader horcemen so im going to get a unit but not till the new rules make them useful...
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Well, I play High elves as a secondary army to wait for the WoC relase, and i place
my Bolt throwers on any hill. Then shower volleys of death on anything in range. 6 Strength 4 shots with -2 to armour save, little is gonna survive that. You could either take mark of tzeentch for that prescious ward save. I dont know if tzeentch sorcerers can use of life in the new book, but using that to screw with shooters might help. Warriros in general are pretty tough, you could screen, but i dont think that helps if they are on a hill which my brother does every time with his gunlines.
The WD list is kinda harsh to WoC against shooting, so I'd wait until the new book comes out. Things to keep in mind for the new book:
-Warhounds. Maybe a stat boost? If not, as long as they stay WS4, a cheap way to screen, and charge warmahcines.
-Marauder Horsemen. Rumoured to be back in core for the new book, so the ablility to take multiple units, without sacraficing special slots. Forcing the enemy to split fire is going to hurt them.
-Magic. As per the current trend, Tzeentch could keep access to BRB lores.
-Daemon Princes or Daemonic mounts. These are an option the hunt enemy shooting.
-Magic Items. There could easily be magic items to help against enemy shooting, maybe a banner, or possibly an item that grants flight, even if that's a long shot.
-New units. New additions (compared to the WD list I mean) are certainly going to help. Trolls with regen for starters, Ogres, rumoured to come with Chaos Armour (fingers crossed!), Dragon Ogres or Shaggoths, who are M7 in the BoC book, and should keep it, if not get faster. Chaos Giants tend to be a cheao way to get Stubburn LD10, so throw them towards the enemy, and just let them attract fire (which they will).
-Warriors and Marauders. Warriors are rumoured to come with Chaos Armour as standard, so will be harder to knock down with shooting, and with 2 attacks, you shouldn't need as many of them to win combats, since they can kill more. Marauders are rumoured to drop to 4 points, which gives a good option to field big units. Even at T3, units of 25-30 are hard to kill with shooting alone - and then there's the rest of the army too!
So. I'd be hanging out 'til the new book against shooters like Empire or Dwarfs. The new Skaven book may even see them shooting a little less, but who knows there...
Missile heavy armies are easily overwhelmed, but it requires you to think outside the standard deployment.
First any successful game requires a decent number of unit drops. Skaven and Orcs-Goblins do this very well with tons of cheap troops. Chaos will do it fine with Warhounds.
The best tactic against gunlines is the weighted flank approach, place several units spread thinly across the entire field, but reserve your heavy hitters until last (which is a standard method anyways). You should try to force your opponent to dedicate a sizable portion of his force to non-play areas where you do not intend to place your troops.
You must also be willign to accept a table edge as your deployment zone and be willing to place your troops in deep formations rather than wide across the field. If you do this you can catch your opponent off guard with his missile units forced into unfavorable positions where LOS and range are limited and then crush one flank quickly with minimal fire-power diected against you.
If you simply go up the center like most Chaos Generals, you'll get creamed every time! Don't fall into a repetition, think about where your opponent is most vulnerable and hit him there, especially if you are less vulnerable.
Also don't be worried about killing their largest point unit first, go after easy VP's drop slaves and goblins and detachments, and then when the numbers start adding up he'll panic and overreact to your challenge and give you what you want a decisive victory with a heads on battle.
def. 'Insanity' : "Doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result."