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This seems like a post that may have been made sometime in the past, but if so i could't find it so i figure ill just post it again.
Im starting a khornate army and basing it around solid blocks of CW, partly because i think the models are awsome and partly because i hate painting flesh (bye bye marauders). So the question is: what, would you say, is the optimal size for a unit of CW? 12 in each seems a little small to me, but perhaps we dont need rank bonus in the same way other armies do.
"Relationships are hard. It's like a full-time job, and we should treat it like one. If your boyfriend or girlfriend wants to leave you, they should give you two weeks' notice. There should beseverance pay, and before they leave you, they should have to find you a temp."
- Bob Ettinger
I don;t play Chaos, so my opinion is a little coloured, but I see Chaos Warriors as a combination of rock-hard defensive infantry (high tough and good save when given shields) with rock-hard offensive infantry (multiplie attacks, high strength). If you are going down teh HW/Shield route, then take a big block, because then you get the CR benefits (if you are not taking Marauders that is) and maybe give the Mark of Slaanesh to make them ItP..
Then use smaller units with multiple hand-weapons, double handed weapons etc as flanking units, pretty much the same way that a typcial HE player uses Phoenix Guard (big block, resilient, in the case of PG, cause fear) and (paper thin armour - not as bad for Chaos warriors, but monsters in combat) Swordmasters.
Of course, you should plan your battel-line accordingly, but I would certainly opt for a unit of 15 i 3 ranks of 5 for HW, and smaller units, maybe with no rank bonus, as flankers/countercharge units.
18 is a good size in a all comers list as you can get 2 ranks banner and mabbe outnummber after all those str4 (or higher) atacks! i field 2 units like this as they will be a hard as anvill ( when the new rules arrive) and when mixed with a couple of large maruader units they will be verry hard to kill. You will always reach the enemy unless they focus souly on one unit (if they do this its a good thing as you will have your other units untouched).
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Agreed - that is a very expensive way to get the extra rank bonus especially with how killy these guys are.
15 is probably the upper limit - 5 frontage, 2 ranks, standard, 10 attacks to the front with a 3+ save at a decent S and WS...
With the supposed-to-be new stats, both the marauder anvil and the warriors hammer have been upgraded.
Justo go for 25-30 marauders+LA+SH+full command, and flank them with 10 warriors (front 6 or 7) with either 2hw or halberd
It's better, it's shiny, it's warped...it's Chaos.
There are several ways of looking at this from my point of view. 'What is your point of view?', do I hear you cry? No? Dang.
Nah, but seriously, I've been worrying about something very similar recently. Here are the thoughts I've had so far - use them as you will:For me, my plan - as mentioned - is to make an Undivided/Khorne army, which will aim to have units of 24 models kicking around. I can either play them with a frontage of eight or six depending on what role I want to fill with the unit. The options aren't quite so varied as if I didn't care about fluff, but I do, so that's that.• Fluff. Is it important to you? Do you care about the story-line of your army? If so, and you're going with a Khorne army, bear in mind that Khorne's special number is '8'. Possibly you could have ranks of eight models. It makes things a mite tricky if you're aiming for that kind of numbers, but it's do-able. Four ranks of six models is 24 models - a multiple of eight. Using this particular kind of fluff to design an army list is rather hard. You also have to wonder if, for example, your army is a fledgling force, in which case it will likely have very few hardened warriors in it, and will mostly be made of marauders. (My army is aiming to use an Undivided background slowly pushing towards Khorne - I believe the special number for Chaos Undivided is '12', so a unit of 24 works particularly well, having both '8' and '12' among its factors. Though I also have an inkling that Undivided may have '13' as a special number, which worries me!)
• Game mechanics. (Kind of.) You can have a look at the size of bases, consider what size of unit you're likely to come across and create a unit that is able to put as many troops into combat at once as possible. Where with the likes of Marauders you probably want to keep your frontage smaller so you lose fewer troops and hold up enemy units for longer, Chaos Warriors - particularly Khorne Chaos Warriors - are there to do damage. That absolute smallest unit you will come across is 10cm - a unit with a frontage of five, sitting on 20mm bases. Your Chaos Warriors have a base size of 25mm. A frontage of four gives you full contact with each model against a unit with 5 models across the front on 20mm bases. Thanks to the corner-to-corner rule, you can add an extra model on each side of your unit to give a frontage of 6 and all models will hit in combat. 6 is also the most units you can get into combat against a unit with a frontage of 6 models on 20mm bases. However, once enemy frontages or base size start to increase, so do your opportunities for doing damage. A unit of Khorne warriors six-across with additional hand weapons can deal 25 strength 4 attacks in every round of combat against any enemy unit. Against most enemies, that's Death. A unit of Khorne warriors eight-across with additional hand weapons can deal 33 strength 4 attacks in every round of combat against some enemy units, but may be limited by the number of models in base-to-base contact to the same 25 attacks your six-across unit has. And you're losing out on a rank bonus at the same time.
• What do you actually want the unit to do? With the right choice of patron-God you can turn your warriors into an unstoppable force or an immovable object. You've chosen Khorne - that equals unstoppable force. As previously mentioned, if you're trying to do damage, increasing your frontage gives you better opportunity. It also gives you less flank to worry about protecting, so you can focus on the job of mincing opponents' models. And with Khorne Chaos Warriors I reckon you can do enough damage in a flurry of attacks to not worry too much about rank bonuses, of which you should have at least one. If, however, you want your warriors to stand around and Take The Pain, you can reduce the frontage so that fewer enemy models can actually hit them. So, pick a role for your unit and choose your unit-size accordingly.
• Points. Obviously a unit of models costing you a minimum of 15 points is going to be limited by how many points you have available. Sadly, much of the 'fluff' rules and ideals fall completely short in smaller armies if you're wanting to include more expensive units. In this case - and bearing in mind the 20/50/20/10 rule - aim to spend around half your available points on core units. I figure that you can get a unit of 12 warriors, full command and some extra equipment for around 250 points. In a 1,000 point army, you could try fielding two of these units. In a 2,000 point army, you might try fielding three units of 15-18 models (3 units of 18 models, armed with additional hand weapons and shields, given full command and a Mark of Khorne costs - I think - 1098 points, almost exactly hitting 50% of your 2,000 point army). Obviously that eats in to the points you have available for other units, such as Marauders and Chaos Warhounds. You have to balance that yourself.
I hope I've been at least some help. And I hope I haven't been patronising, or talking rubbish. This is only my second post, and I'm very new to WHFB, so it could be that I'm talking utter nonsense, or just saying stuff that everyone already knows. If so, prod me, and I'll not do it again!
Last edited by el_don; October 10th, 2008 at 23:26. Reason: Added 'Points' reasoning.