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  1. #1
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    Special Characters

    For those who have/dl'd/seen the book, what are your opinions on the special characters? These are mine. Note: I probably don't have enough experience to really make a good opinion on these guys so take what I say with a grain of salt. If you guys think that some of these guys are better than I give them credit for, then state it. If you guys want to call my opinions a load of crap, go ahead- I have no feelings to hurt.

    For Archaon, I think he looks pretty powerful, but I can't see myself using him. At his most powerful he'll sometimes either hurt himself or kill his nice, expensive retinue. If he's not unleashing his sword, then you're using him at less then his full potential, but you're still paying for it. In spite of his powerful wargear and stuff, I don't see him being used often.

    Galrauch is another one I don't think we'll see often. He's expensive, doesn't have a ward, (other than his 6+), and he has a chance of attacking himself. I feel there's better ways to spend your points, like on Kholek. Whatever you can do with Galrauch, you can probably do better with a Chaos Dragon and a sorcerer.

    Prince Sigvald- the only lord with T4. He has 7 attacks and ASF, a great save, and regen, plus he ignores all forms of difficult terrain. He's also stubborn. He's hard to kill and strikes hard, but with his low movement and the fact that he's stuck on foot... You can build someone that hits harder and is tougher for less points- the only things you actually lose are Stubborn and the ability to ignore difficult terrain, but it costs 50 pts less. (Chaos lord with a daemonic mount, crown of everlasting conquest, helm of many eyes, biting blade, enchanted shield for 355pts- 360 with the mark of Slannesh- and he has regen, 0+ save, ASF, 7 s5 attacks, and movement .

    Now for Kholek... He'll probably be one of the more played special characters once his model comes out (especially if it looks as cool as his pic). I believe he has the highest strength of any model in WHFB so far, he deal multiple wounds, he has high movement, a 2+ save, a number of wounds and weapon skill as high as his strength, and 7 attacks. He also has an unlimited range shooting attack that deals 1d6 s6 hits or, if you're unlucky, give him frenzy. He's also immune to warp lightning cannons. The only real problem with him is his super low initiative- I believe there's a skaven weapon that will instantly kill him, and so would a certain Nurgle spell. Other than that, he's an absolute beast and looks easily worth his points, with his only real drawbacks being the low initiative and the lack of a ward save or regen.

    Valkia the bloody. Probably my favorite special character due to her description and imagery. She has a high number of attacks, WS 9, a 2+ save, she weakens attacks against her, and enemies in b2b lose attacks. She also flies and allows your guys to re-roll break tests along with re-rolling the eyes of the gods. When she charges, you can expect to see a lot of death. Her big drawback, though, is she lacks a ward save. If the enemy hits her with a cannon ball or a tenderizer or something similar, she's dead. Also her flight and overall toughness against small arms (bows, rifles, etc) makes her seem like a good choice to run around killing shooty things, but her support abilities are a bit too important to send her to do something like kill warmachines. You want her in the middle of things to re-roll break tests. Overall, I can see her being played with a fair bit at first. I haven't played enough WHFB to make a good call on her, but I'll definately use her once her model comes out.

    Vilitch doesn't strike me as anything spectacular. The only things worth mentioning with him is that he knows all the Tzeentch spells and that you get extra PD or DD when the opponent fails to dispell or cast. While that can be a powerful ability, he just doensn't seem that interesting to me compared to what you can do with a normal sorcerer or how the other special characters are setup. Also, he only has a 4+ AS and 6+ ward. Not very good protection for someone who costs the same as Tyrion.

    Festus... He lacks chaos armour unlike most other characters, but he has regenerate instead. He also confers regen to his unit along with poison attacks. However, his unit can only pursue 1d6" and you don't really want him in combat anyways. He's a wizard that's equipped like he wants to get into combat, but does't have the abilities to back it up really. He also has to take a very high cost spell as one of his two spells. I'd leave him at home.

    Throgg the troll king is going to get taken. His stats are really high, he has regeneration, he lets monsters use his LD even if he's not the general, he lets you use trolls as troops, he has super vomit powers, etc. He also has both eye of the gods and mutant regeneration, meaning he can potentially gain a lot of abilities really fast. His downsides are his only defence is his regen and he has low initiative. His large number of wounds mostly make up for only having regen, though, and other than his initiative he's got a lot of attacks and higher than normal strength and toughness. I can see him being taken a fair bit.

    Wulfrik and his flying ship... He's the second last special character in the book. He can come in from any board edge, force challenges, and he's gains bonuses against a single enemy. Other than that he's essentially a standard exalted champion with extra WS and I. The abiity to come onto the board from any edge means that those opponents who love to hug the back of the board can get rear charged when he appears. This should hopefully convince the opponent not to keep his more fragile or imporant units too far back, in which case your hounds/marauder horsemen will have an easier time trying to get to them. He's also great for taking out those guys that like to hide in units and run away when challenged. What? You're a wizard with no armour and only 1 s3 attack? Bring it on! No running now! *insert mass overkill bonuses* I think he'll at least get tossed around a bit. The ability to flank any someone who strays too close to a board edge when he comes in will be fun, just as any nid player with a broodlord would know.

    Scyla the super spawn! Considering he's about twice as expensive as a normal spawn for marginal benefits, I'd say he's not worth it.

    Anyways, thats it for my rookie opinions. So as I asked before, what do you guys think of the new special characters?

    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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  3. #2
    Member darcchipmunk's Avatar
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    Awesome post man. I'm guessing those are the only characters in the new armies book (haven't seen inside it yet).
    Really clear and concise descriptions. It'll be a good heads up, although I usually base my armies off how my models look, not their abilities.
    reps

  4. #3
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    This is my take on the special characters and what kind of role I think they should take..

    Archaon: He's 200pts cheaper than before and still all powerful just like before too. I'd personally use Archaon alot because he's 600pts, the equivalent of any strong special character or better... if Archaon can punk a Tyrion easily, then I think he'd have little trouble taking on other characters.. even Kolek would be smashed (having to hit Archaon on 5+ and wound him on 3+). Regular rank&file troops will all be kicked aside from his power weapon attacks. (center piece, the win all lose all character)

    Galrauch: meh, I'd rather have a Sorcerer Lord on a Dragon instead. (useless)

    Sigvald: His stats-line is great, 1+armor save and regeneration is awesome too, but he's a little naked against Killing Blow attacks (DE Assassin and WE Wardancer comes to mind).. perhaps it's why he's butt-naked.. literally. The best part about Sigvald though, is his supportive capability.. LDR10 Stubborn and ignore terrain, imagine having him leading a unit of 4pts Marauder while having units of knight and warrior/chosen ready to counter flank charge... Despise all the benefits he's offering, I am ever going use him if I field a footslogging troop-heavy army. (very supportive, utility hero)

    Kholek: Much like Archaon, he's all offensive.. meaning, forfeiting all the defenses to go for more attack power. No ward save or regeneration? He will be shredded by cannons and magic.. namely Rule of Burning Iron or Pit of Shade (initiative 1?!?!). You will definitely have the game in the bag if this guy run into combat... but if he trips and fall into a pit of shade before that happens.. you may as well as tap the game. *on a side note, Kolek can sit on a Bloodthirster easily. (Putting all eggs into one basket)

    Valkya: She's probably one of the 3 special characters that I'll ever consider using.. a flying BSB with added killing power. Put her inside a unit of Warrior until she's in range to charge, then she'll cause all kinds of trouble at the back of your opponent's line. One thing though, never release her alone if she's facing a gunline army, or you'll soon find her in piece after ripping through one unit of 100pts gunner. (Very nice flying BSB character)

    Vilitch: He's like the Blue Scribe from Daemon of Chaos. If you fashion a more pure magic army then he's in for some consideration, otherwise, stay away from him. (Only use in a magic heavy army)

    Throgg: Troll as core choice? Sounds pretty good for a Hero. His stats line is nothing amazing, in fact, it's almost like a normal troll stats. (Solid choice for games less than 2000pts)

    Wulfrig: He's probably the one Hero I'd use in all my games. He's great at disrupting opponent's back line.. especially, range attacks that's the doom of this particular army.
    Anima Tactics - try it out!

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    A legend in my own mind.
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    I am very impressed by the amound of special characters we can now use



    Archaon of course is at my top, I loved using him before. Now he's cheaper.


    Villitch I would take mainly since im a huge spell caster and those extra dice would really help me out


    Gaulrauch I dont see much use



    Valkia I like her, Id use her if theyd make a model


    Scylla, i dotn like spawns

    Kohek, dunno

    wulfrig, he sounds like hed be fun to use a couple times.

    Fetus again dont know

    Sigvald I really like him and his fluff. Id probably use him.

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    A legend in my own mind.
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    I am very impressed by the amound of special characters we can now use



    Archaon of course is at my top, I loved using him before. Now he's cheaper.


    Villitch I would take mainly since im a huge spell caster and those extra dice would really help me out


    Gaulrauch I dont see much use



    Valkia I like her, Id use her if theyd make a model


    Scylla, i dotn like spawns

    Kohek, dunno

    wulfrig, he sounds like hed be fun to use a couple times.

    Fetus again dont know

    Sigvald I really like him and his fluff. Id probably use him.

  7. #6
    Member Stevethepirate's Avatar
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    well im pretty much set on WoC being my second army, and first for fantasy and im really digging the models and some of the things ive been reading, particularly Wulfrik, archaon and kolek. however, whats the rough proportion of points thats usually spent on lords and heroes in say a 2000 point game? around 800 or closer to 1000? its just that the generals and things are 4 or 5 times the cost of hq's from 40k and im just gauging whats the normal amount spent?

  8. #7
    LO's thread lurker warhammer madman's Avatar
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    i say no mare than 500pts ever (unless tomb kings where i spend around 800pts...)
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  9. #8
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevethepirate View Post
    well im pretty much set on WoC being my second army, and first for fantasy and im really digging the models and some of the things ive been reading, particularly Wulfrik, archaon and kolek. however, whats the rough proportion of points thats usually spent on lords and heroes in say a 2000 point game? around 800 or closer to 1000? its just that the generals and things are 4 or 5 times the cost of hq's from 40k and im just gauging whats the normal amount spent?
    It should be based on necessity not on proportion. You could run an army with total of 1000pts worth of characters if you are aimming to achieve something, or you could run an army with no more than 300pts of characters too if you wanted a horde army. You wouldnt go make an army and forfeit magic defense just because you hit your "character quota", or else your army will be ravaged in 2 turns of brutal magic phase.

    When I make my army list, I usually have a couple sets of objective in my mind.. for example, I want Unit A to be my flanker (units that can run alone without support, main purpose is to hunt War Machines and support other units), Unit B to be my anvil (units that can absorb a charge in order for other units to counter charge on the next turn), and Unit C to be my hard-hitting hammer unit (units that actually deal the death). Now, I have my units down on the paper, I go into character section and see what they can offer to further boosting the goal of each unit *if* the unit needs the boosting. Lastly, I take a look at my army over-all, its resilience and speed then I determine how much of a magic/range defense I would need so to ensure it's survivability at least until it accomplishes the goal I set them out to do, and add in appropriate amount of wizard-character and/or magic items that protects them from harm. My lists usually involves as little as 2 characters to as much as maxed out 4 characters in a 2000pts game, and they can range from 600pts to as much as 950pts in total... points cost is just a trivial matter to me as long as they get the job done.
    Anima Tactics - try it out!

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevethepirate View Post
    well im pretty much set on WoC being my second army, and first for fantasy and im really digging the models and some of the things ive been reading, particularly Wulfrik, archaon and kolek. however, whats the rough proportion of points thats usually spent on lords and heroes in say a 2000 point game? around 800 or closer to 1000? its just that the generals and things are 4 or 5 times the cost of hq's from 40k and im just gauging whats the normal amount spent?
    Another way of looking at it is the 20/50/20/10 rule that a lot of tournament players will follow:

    20% of points on characters; 50% of points on core; 20% of points on special; 10% of points on rare.

    But don't feel you're strictly bound by those limits. They're a solid way of ensuring you have a well-enough army with plenty of options, but feel free to range slightly up or down on those figures.

    They give you a nice rough guide, though: in a 2,000 points game, I'd aim to have my characters no more than 500 points. Ideally, I'd hold them to 400, but it's fair to expect them to run over slightly. That's comfortably three good-quality hero-class characters.

  11. #10
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_don View Post
    Another way of looking at it is the 20/50/20/10 rule that a lot of tournament players will follow:

    20% of points on characters; 50% of points on core; 20% of points on special; 10% of points on rare.

    But don't feel you're strictly bound by those limits. They're a solid way of ensuring you have a well-enough army with plenty of options, but feel free to range slightly up or down on those figures.

    They give you a nice rough guide, though: in a 2,000 points game, I'd aim to have my characters no more than 500 points. Ideally, I'd hold them to 400, but it's fair to expect them to run over slightly. That's comfortably three good-quality hero-class characters.
    If you want a lord choice with WoC then you aren't going to go under 500pts considering all the lord choices will come to at least 300 pts usually.

    As for the 20/50/20/10 rule that some people use... it doesn't apply to some armies. DoC, for example, are generally more like 40/15/30/15 and vampire are more like 40/30/20/10. DOC have expensive heroes so we'll probably be more like 30/30/25/15. There's a lot of tourney armies that break that rule, like Welf treeman armies.

    I agree with nekochan more. Choose your units based on a goal. If they can complete that goal whithout interfering with your ability to complete other goals, then it doesn't matter if it costs 50pts or 500pts. You want a crazy character like Kholek that can slaughter everything he can reach, then take him. Just remember that he's a large chunk of your fighting strength and that you need to take out enemy cannons and mages fast before they kill him (and that you still need magic defence or he'll die to a pit of shades or that nurgle swamp spell).
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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