Welcome to Librarium Online!
For those of you who got the spearhead and new book, please tell us your opinions.
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.
I quite like it. I'll never play chaos because I don't like the imagery at all, but the book is an interesting read and seems pretty clear. There are also lots of options for armies and individual characters. There's a lot more info on what goes on in the north and just who all these warriors are.
On the whole the army and it's special abilities all seem to be based around doing vast amounts of damage in close combat. There's minimal ranged ability but once Chaos Warriors reach combat not much can stop them. Heaven forbid if Chaos Knights or Chosen get in amongst the enemy without having their numbers heavily thinned out.
My first impression (I've said it before and my opinion hasn't changed with a second reading) is that playing a Warriors of Chaos army is like being rammed by an aircraft carrier. You can see it coming from a long way off but you're going to have to do some pretty clever stuff to stop getting completely squashed.
No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!
Played 2 games yesterday against a friend who used my Empire army and my list (we pretty much share all the armies). This is not a battle report..
*??* = attached to unit
Arch-Lector on War Altar w/ Casket, Judgement Hammer, Dawn Armour & Shld
Luthor Hoss *1*
Warrior Priest w/ Icon, Meteorite Armour, G.Wpn *2*
Lv.2 Wizard w/ Lore of Metal, 2x D.Scroll *2*
20 Flaggies w/ Champ
18 Swordsman w/ Full Command *2*
5 Inner Circle w/ Champ & Banner *1*
6 Inner Circle w/ Champ & Banner
Lv4 Tzeentch Sorc w/ Gift:Conjoined, Spell Familiar *1*
Lv2 Tzeentch Sorc w/ Skull of Katam *1*
Khorne Exalted Hero w/ Collar, Ench.Shld *2*
13 Slaanesh Marauder w/ nothing *1*
5 Nurgle Horsemen w/ L.Armour, Spear, Thrw.Axe, Musician
5 Nurgle Horsemen w/ L.Armour, Spear, Thrw.Axe, Musician
17 Khorne Chosen w/ Shield, Musician, War Banner *2*
5 Khorne Knights w/ nothing
5 Khorne Knights w/ nothing
First game, I almost got massacred.. Steam Tank steamrolled over from the flank took out my Marauder unit (mainly because my Lv4 went stupid after I used the Conjoined Gift), 1 unit of knight, 1 unit of Horsemen. Inner Circle knights miraculously took out my other Khornate knights (even though I had the charge).
Second game, minor lose.. Steam Tank got back-handed by my Lv4. with Infernal Gate (rolled 12 on Strengh) on the first turn. Helblaster single-handly took out 1 unit of knights, 1 unit of Horsemen. Again, his Inner Circle knights walked up and down my Khornate Knights even though I had the charge... to add insult to my injury, my Exalted Hero, which was my general, frenzied and charged into Arch Lector and War Altar.. did 0 wound, outnumbered, rolled 12 on leadership and got ran down on the last turn. eh..
My experiences with the new Chaos army are:
- Khorne Knights are awesome, rolling 20 million attack dices, but it does minimum damage against 1+ Sv. Empire knights.
- Chosen is great.. I should've just sticked with Grt.Wpn instead.
- Doggies are great.. 30pts of 5 = expendable unit
- Gift:Conjoined Homunculus.. never again.. Ldr8 Stupidity sucks!
- Mark of Tzeentch + Skull of Katam is the greatest thing ever!
- Nurgle Horsemen is a must-have now, Fast Cavalry that impose -1 to hit against shooting.. like a skirmirsher.
- I hate Empire!
- I hate the person that played it too!
Anima Tactics - try it out!
I haven't gotten the spreahead yet, but just had a read through of the book.
So far, I love the new warriors. They are by far the best core infantry, 2 attacks and chaos armor base is overpowered.
To balance this huge price jump in warriors, they dropped marauders (4points a guy is nice) without doing much damage to their ability in CC.
I like the changes to the marks (especially nurgle, and its pricing). I kind of miss some of the magic items, but the eye of the gods is a really fun concept. It's an RPG in a tabletop strategy... sweet!
The new chosen, given great weapons, are monsters in combat.
Basically, overall if you can get into CC you win. If you can't, you lose. Sounds fun to me .
So far as a 1+ save goes, I'd have thought your Khorne knights would be ideally placed to do the damage. You should be reducing to a 4+, right? With a frontage of 5 you're doing 16 attacks which should be enough to do at least two kills. And you have a 1+ save, too. So I'm surprised that you had problems killing off the Empire knights.
Chosen and Warriors should both be armed with great-weapons and a shield. They can get across the field with minimal damage hiding behind the shield and hit things like billy-o with their great-weapons. I don't think you could convince me to take any other weapons on those guys.
Hounds = agree. You can take them in units of five or six to conserve your flank-negating unit strength after a couple of wounds, and still have easily four units to do flank-protection and suchlike for - what? - under 150 points? Awesomeness.
Nurgle Horsemen = also agree, unless you're being fluffy and using a God-themed army that isn't Nurgle. As flanking units they could do nicely with a Mark of Khorne and flails, to just slam into the side of something that's already been hit in the front by, say, a unit of knights.
A thought I've had recently: Marauders with an unmodified hero in their front-rank is awesome. Arm Marauders with great-weapons and they're doing nasty, nasty damage. They kill enough on the charge to get first combat next turn and the hero can take advantage of that, cutting down models so that enemy units can't do so much damage to your always-strike-last great-weapon Marauders. And, being 5 points per model, you can rank 'em up like nothing else. Makes for an awesome combination, I think. What are other people's thoughts?
Isn't that the way it has always been?Basically, overall if you can get into CC you win. If you can't, you lose. Sounds fun to me
The book is good, a few little changes here and there but nothing to big. The new warriors are insane. at one more point per model, 15 instead of 14 you get another attack, then if you give them additional hands weapons (+1 pt) and shields (+1 pt), give them three attacks on a core unit. That is nuts.
Also now warhounds can get poison attacks and/or scale skin 6+ save. Finally a save for them, even if it is not that good it is still better then nothing. They also gave use a few ranged attacks. Of course there is the hellcannon, but the marauder horseman can now either have throwing axes, or throwing javillians.
And the thought of running a monster army is crazy. Though I know I am not the only one to think of it. If you take Throgg King of the Trolls, you have the choice to take troll units as core. Also, trolls, dragon ogres, warhounds and ogres use his leadership on the entire battlefield, as if he was with 12" of them. So yeah that type of army could get pretty insane.
There are even smaller changes to some of the older things. Like Galrauch now never goes under your opponets control, but rather the two heads fight with each other. Just small things like that, so the book is worth reading even if you think you know how it use to work, things have changed.
But all in all the book is awesome, it is worth getting for those of you that follow the Dark Gods and I can't wait to lead my chaos army to victory.
Now, the warriors will atleast last a turn or two against some of the hardest hitting units in the game, giving you a chance to flank with you pesky cavalry or really beefed knights.
Also, dropping marauders points means larger units are more viable, and so they'll win more combat with modifiers. Which will lead to the same result as above.
Black Templar (W/D/L): 4/6/2
Dark Eldar (W/D/L): 4/1/0
Warriors of Chaos (W/D/L): 3/0/1
Are Marauder units plus a Hero viable in place of a unit of Chaos Warriors?
I'm thinking that a unit of 23 Marauders with great-weapons plus an unmodified Hero (24 models: frontage of six in four ranks) could do a lot of damage and be reasonably cheap. They rely on breaking enemy units on the charge, but there's a fun twist: if they manage to win combat but don't break the enemy, the Hero strikes first in the following combat phase, hopefully doing enough damage that your great-weapons get another swing.
My problem with great-weapons is that they cause you to suffer rubbishness post-first-round, unless your opponent also has 'em. This way they don't have such a big problem. Your Hero should kill at least two models with his attacks - give him an additional hand weapon to be safe - so your enemy will only be able to strike back with four or five hits, instead of the usual six or seven. Against a unit of 12 Chaos Warriors (using them because they're happily considered one of the best infantry units in the game), I figure that... hang on. Let me set myself up properly:
23 Marauders with great-weapons and Mark of Khorne, plus Hero with an additional hand weapon = 259 points.
12 Chaos Warriors with shields, full-command and Mark of Khorne = 252 points.
You know what? I'm gonna shut up. It's only just occurred to me that the entire point of the point system is that two units of equal points value will be roughly matched. And, if the Marauders charge the Warriors, they are fairly evenly matched. I think the Marauders win combat by around one or two points.
In fact, this, I think, argues pretty much against me. Essentially I'm saying that a unit of Marauders set up to be a couple of points more expensive than some Warriors will struggle to win a combat, even if they charge. Because, of course, if the Warriors get the charge in, there's absolutely no contest.
Conclusion: I'm an idiot. I think plenty of you have figured that one out already. But, the interesting conclusion (I think, anyway!) is that even Marauders who are upgraded to be close to the same points as Warriors, plus a Hero to fix the problem of attacking first in subsequent rounds of combat, do not fare as well as the Warriors in almost any situation.
Summary of the conclusion: in any circumstance, Warriors are better than Marauders.
I need to stop talking.