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i had this discussion on an other forum and since google didnt help me get a answer i decided to registere here and ask for your oppinion.
Ensorc weapons give +1 str. wich makes knights st 5. The book littarly sais on page 125 "Upgrade ensorcelled weapons to lances."
UPGRADE, NOT REPLACE.
So basicly we have ensorcelled lances. The effects are cumultative and stack.
Rules of the weaon : +1 strencht, magical, lance +2 str on charge.
It's also nothing more than logical since atm the normal weapons are alot better but this would drasticaly change alot of things.
Someone got feedback on this?
Well, it doesn't say that you are upgrading ensorcelled weapons to ensorcelled lances, it just says upgrade ensorcelled weapons to lances, which most people on this board have taken to be replace ensorcelled weapons which have their won rules specific to teh WoC book, with lances, which have their own rules in teh BRB...
If it said anything different, I would agree. But unlike the Black Knights and Grave Guards entry which indicates that all their attacks are magical and KB, Chaos knights have specific magical weapons which may be exchanged for mundane lances....
The lances are probably far more useful against slower enemies who are unlikely to get the charge in, than S5 attacks - e.g. against Dwarves, or Ogres...both of whom have units with T5, so S6 will help
In the Italian codex it states that Lances replace ensorc weaps. It sounds clear, but there's been a lot of debate due to english books stating upgrade. In my store everybody play them at S6.
40k : Necron ,Chaos, Space Orks ,Eldar ,Dark Angels, 'Nyds
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Hmnm, lets hope a ereta will clear some things up.
( didnt knew that was different in italian lol ;p )
More comment on this matter is still appreciated
chaos fanbois being pedantic over wording, it obviously means replace
RAW: Knights have Str.7 magical Lances
RAP: Knights have Str. 5 mundane lances
RAI: Not conclusive enough to point either way.
Nope - RAW is St 6 lances, not magical - the upgrade does not make the magical hand weapon into a magical lance. If this was the case, then it would say upgrade ensorcelled hand weapons to ensorcelled lances, not just plain lances. It's like magic weapons proper - if a magic weapon is a Halberd, it describes it as such:
Halberd: halberd of nasty deathness...
If it just said:
halberd of nasty deathness...then it would not benefit from or suffer any of the advantages and disadvantages of a real halberd - best example is Caradryan's weapon, pre eratta, it was not described as a halberd....now it is.
Similarly, these lances are just that, they are not described as ensorcelled lances...
I'd definately have to agree with Kithre here on this one - items and item bonuses don't stack unless specifically stated, or if all of the unit's attacks are magical. If the unit can carry +1 Str magical weapons, or exchange them for lances - its an either/or. If it stated they could upgrade to "magical lances" or "+2 str magical lances" then I could see it, but with the either/or option out there and the wording on the weapon choices, I would throw the BS flag on someone who pulled out magic lances on their Chaos Knights.
They even state in the White Dwarf issue talking about WoC about Chaos Knights having a +1 Str magic hand weapon or +2 Str on charge "mundane" lances.
GW always has a few wording bugs to fix whenever they do up a new codex, but some folks take the wording a little too literal for my tastes.
Now a better wording question for me would be challenges - the book states Chaos Champions have to issue challenges, but later in the entry it states that only characters can benefit from the Eyes of the Gods table in challenges. THEN the warshrine entry states that when it is in range of the unit, unit Champions must issue challenges and can benefit from the Eyes of the Gods. So - question is - does my maurader unit champion still have to issue challenges since he is not a character?
That would be utterly ridiculous, and always worth upgrading. It should be fairly obvious that the intent of the wording was "replace". Thus you have an option. S5 magical attacks, or S6 on the charge followed by S4. If it was a choice between S5 magical attacks and S7 magical attacks on the charge followed by S5 magical attacks... well, it would be downright silly to not upgrade them for so cheap.
"Bender! You literally interpreted the rules with no regard as to their original intent! Well done!"
[...] So I burst into his office and exclaimed, quite frankly, "That's Numberwang." As I recall it, he cried.
It also does not tell you Ensorcelled weapons to Ensorcelled lances. Unless there is a reference in your army book that will say otherwise treated as the mundane version. You also have no entry that relates to the effect applying to the lances as well.